Thank you so much for posting this article, very interesting and helpful:) And glad to see that more and more see what gptB (for those who don't know, it stands for 'get paid to boycott') is about, people should be made aware of that site/forum and NOT blindly trust the content there.It is well known that they personally attack those who don't agree with them, ridicule and embarrass others and boycott sites that should not be.gptB was opened up with the sole purpose to make money, BEWARE of that site, it is NOT what they want you to think it is.jmo:)
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Saturday March 1, 2008 @ 4:54 PM
While forums can provide useful insight, some are setup purely for the financial gain of its owner(s). For instance one Forum that places PTR programs on their boycott list of programs to avoid, simply are not reliable.
The reasons are as follows:
1. The number of complaints needed are not based on a programs member base. The arbitrary number of 10 complaints is all it takes for a program to find themselves placed on the boycott list.
2. The complaint form has no way to verify if the one complaining is in fact a member of said program. They leave the user name of the program optional. Therefore any body member or not can go file a grievance.
3. Complaints are not verified. Without user name of a complainant there is no way to approach a program being complained about to find out if the complaint is warranted or not.
4. Currently out of nearly 40 boycotted programs less than 20% were boycotted for specifically non payment to members.
The reasons allowed to boycott any program have been allowed to be subjective vs objective.
If a program owner is not on the well liked list, then all hands are down and it is ok to complain that the personality of a program owner is grounds for boycott.
I am certain others are able to add to this list. Please feel free to share your experiences.
Note: I am not saying it is not a good idea to have forums to share information but if the information shared is not done on an objective level it looses creditability and reverts to petty childish school age antics.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Saturday March 1, 2008 @ 4:58 PM
Thank you very much for starting this blog, Jason. It is very much needed to help those involved in Paid To Read Programs. And, you are giving excellent advice for those who look to forums for information about PTR programs.
I think one of the things to do in the forums when one sees what people are saying about any particular program is to look at the "tone" of the statement.
Like you said, there's a difference between objective and subjective.
Is there bias in the post? Does the statement appear as a personal vendetta? Does the post distract from the topic or redirect by making comments about a person who posted rather than the subject at hand?
Also know that Administration and Modorators are key to maintaining their rules of the forum and do a daily review of posts to ensure that the rules are not being violated.
So, after reading the rules of the forums, navigate the forum site to see if there is proper administration to the rules. Discussions DO get out of hand, but, if you see no posts by Admin or Morerators stepping in and posting warnings, there's a good chance that Administrators and Moderators are not doing their jobs.
With that in mind, and the "set up" as Jason explained of one in particular, you can pretty much judge for yourself whether or not to believe the reasons behind the boycotting.
I will warn you ahead of time that those kind of forums that allow such border-line defamation posts DO have groups that will attack anyone who questions their logic or twisting what others say. So, if you post a pro against a con on a program they are trying to boycott, be prepared to be personally attacked or reported to whatever authority they think could harm you. Those people are vicious and vindictive.
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Saturday March 1, 2008 @ 7:21 PM
Thank you for writing this blog Jason and I totally agree with the content.
What I find fascinating with that particular forum is, it was started by a law student what, 7 yrs ago and he’s still not a lawyer, the part owner of the forum is an ex cop, so we’re told, is there more money in a gossip forum? Now the moderators, one is an ex judge so we’re told again, now I ask you what would a judge be doing at a gossip forum and the other and ex IRS employee, so we’re told, as far as we know he could have been the cleaner as he seems to like getting PO’s accounts cleaned out at Paypal. Now doesn’t that make a nice gang, awwwww. Or is that all made up to intimidate new members joining the PTR Industry or maybe to give them the credibility that they seem to crave for and sadly lack.
I tend to think like you do, join the sites you think is right for you, work out your differences with the PO if that’s not possible then definitely put it down as a bad experience, walk away and remember the lesson JMO.
As for the rules at gptb there are none, sure its all written but if you have the tiniest difference of opinion the rules change unless you are part of the team.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Saturday March 1, 2008 @ 10:26 PM
I've found most forums to be helpful in different ways, except for one, GPTBoycott. They are, in my opinion, just difficult, untruthful and downright mean people. Most forums attached to long standing PTR sites are fun, and have useful info for that site and many other topics. Unfortunately, it is a case of "buyer beware". My advice is to get to know the site and those who use it, just by checking out the different postings until you feel secure enough to post there. And never, ever, ever post your private information, including your email address in public areas. I have a friend who did this when she first started on the 'Net and ended up with over 10,000 messages within 3 days. What a mess that was. Thank you, Jason, for a very interesting blog, and very useful too!
Some are truthful, but then there are those that for some reasom just like to ruin the repetation of other sites or pos. I find one that i think is right i will try to find info for myself without the use of boycott. sometimes it works and sometimes it don't. when i got in bpm it has really worked for me. I would stick by it until i see some proof and not just rumors or something that sounds like a grudge being held against a po.Boycott could be a good thing if it had good management and run the right way, but not the way it is now.
by milliem2 (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 2, 2008 @ 12:34 PM
Thank you Jason for the informative and on target article. I am glad to see more and more people coming forward and helping to get the word out about the so called PTR Police/crusaders as you called them. Keep up the good work.
by spiderella (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 2, 2008 @ 8:02 PM
Thank you Jason for making this informative article, I totally agree with everything in it, If more people would read articles like this then we could get the word out about how GPTB operates and open peoples eyes and show them that GPTB is NOT all it claims to be. It is just a place where mean spirited people that have nothing better to do than to go there to put others down and to attack them if they don't agree with what they say is fact. As for myself I try and find out what I can about any sites I think about joining by asking questions of other members that I know, and use my own common sense. I would not believe anything that comes off of the GPTB site as it has been proven over and over that they are just a bunch of unhappy people and want to bring everyone else down to their level.
by senga44 (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 2, 2008 @ 9:39 PM
Thank you for your article Jason.
I agree that forums can be useful if used properly.
Some forums seem to think they are in charge of the ptr world, yet, they are just a forum run by clickers. If they don't like something about a program, they want no one else to be in that program so the program possibly will go under.
I think it's a shame that some program owners really believe without even knowing the program that just because a few people don't like it, they won't allow it on their sites.
Other forums can discuss sites, give their likes or dislikes, but they let people make up their own minds. I like those types of forums.
In some ways, what one particular forum does by their 'boycotting' sites is hurting other sites. I leave the sites that 'boycott' a site just because of what i guess is 10 people not liking the program.
And i know others leave sites for this reason too.
I'm not talking about a site that doesn't pay or cheats the clickers.
by pam (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 2, 2008 @ 11:47 PM
Thank you to everyone who has given their opinions on PTR Forums. The one thing I actually forgot about that someone mentioned is that some PTR programs have their own forums as well as the general forums open to the public that discuss all of the different PTR programs out there.
I think forums could be a useful tool. Generally, I think Forums run by a PTR program themselves tend to be more useful and fun than those forums that are discussing this program and that program where some post hateful, spiteful posts ridiculing someones opinion.
What I hate the most about some forums are how a select few are allowed to post belittling derogatory remarks about those who do not view the program in question the same as them.
I have noticed that a handful of people that tend to cross reference two other forums post in such a manner that leads me to believe they wish to control all PTR programs in such a manner that only they would be the ones making any money.
Really, have they not noticed in real life that having only one source of say phone services leads to price gouging and without competition the users of the service have no resources to better options. But then again I suppose that is the point. Control PTR and then they can reap the rewards from their search links and PTP links being the sole links out there to earn from.
Searches is another entire blog discussion lol.
Anyhow, users beware, make note of the most prominent posters in any forum. Notice the small group of posters patting each other on the back while they attempt to discredit and degrade those with opposing views. Read older threads to see the soap opera story unfold leading you to the main characters attempting to sway others into thinking that they alone know what is best for all members in any given program and that they alone have the power to keep a program open or closed.
Some programs have been closed due to the rash of tattle tailing mentality of others. Many members have lost earnings from such shenanigans, all because the vendetta seeking crew disliked how a webmaster spoke to them.
Common sense dictates. Really, we are all adults who have the ability to be able to pick and chose which sites we want to join. Hopefully, we learn along the way how not to join sites that will only take our time and energy and never paying us.
Boycotting, is it really necessary? Another subject closely tied would be: Are all those "Approved Lists" of sites allowed to be advertised on specific sites necessary? Really, after a while there will be no where to advertise if all sites do not make the approved list.
lol so much to say but I will call it a night and say thank you again to all those taking part. And imagine we don't even have to have the same opinion. We are here to share our experiences so others may hopefully not make the same mistakes we have or to at least get a heads up on how not to be caught hook line and sinker by those who are not as truthful as they would like to appear.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Monday March 3, 2008 @ 2:31 AM
I would make a comment here on behalf of Gptboycott,but as the majority of comments here are opinions of bgpaymail.com members who resented their program being put on the boycott list,it would probably be edited or deleted like comments were done on Amy Lynn's article at Associated Content. It would be a waste of time and energy.
With all due respect for merlin as a person, I don't think it's resentment to the person, but, resentment towards the attitudes and actions taken by a certain group that, IMO, makes an ill-planned purpose of a forum even worse.
Look at your comment, merlin. Irregardless of who we are and of which program the majority of posters belong, here you are, claiming that your comments would be deleted because of it.
The facts are that the forums we are talking about uses subjectivity, rather than objectivity to boycott. And, believe their rules,are unfair. Is it fair that only 10 complaints be needed to do so when many programs have thousands of members? Is it fair to allow impromtu basis for such? And, have no means to verify a complaint from an anonymous complaintant?
I could go on to include mud-sling / bashing posters who disagree with what this "group" does. Even gloating over the fact that a site owner has been "reported." How objective is that in discussing a program?
Are we not adults who can agree or agree to disagree without personal accusations or twisting what is written by a poster who happens to disagree with the group on an issue?
Look at your post, merlin, and see it for what it is. This subject is about forums - not who the majority of posters are here or what program in which they are members.
If you can speak objectively, I'm sure no one would discredit or delete your post. You have as much right to bring out the good points of forums that discuss GPT as well as we have the right to discuss what we think is wrong with them.
Pros and cons - no need to get personal and assume you will be treated unfairly.
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Monday March 3, 2008 @ 3:14 PM
Merlin,for one you already made a comment by posting here and I don't understand why you assuming again just because some of us here are members of BG (of which I'm proud of) and agree with the points that Jason and others have pointed out.What really matters here is the discussion about what is wrong with forums such as gptB who proud themself to boycott sites including some of those who should not be.To make others aware of those same points so they can consider them when reading such Forums is in my opinion a plus to anyone.JMO
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Monday March 3, 2008 @ 4:04 PM
You expect that I shouldn't be leary of your claims with the accusations that you made on Amy Lynn's article and on your own forum and now because I state I expect your abuse and probably deletion. Come on and get serious...you only have to read your own comments toward me on your own forum,the AC article and what you did on Gptboycott to know your attempting to blow smoke where the sun don't shine. Gptboycott may be a money making site for Rob,but any other members are just that....members. What they do or say is not for money or payments like some of you get from Bill or claim to get from him. We do it simply because we just care about the other guy ripping us off for what ever reason it is. Be it just being a jerk,deliberate or otherwise,all of the members of GPTboycott care about the other person and getting ripped off,but you the members of Bgpaymail,have taken and made a mountain out of a mole hill with your bitterness and your vendettas against Gptboycott. Bgpaymail is still around,gptboycott is still around so what's your point,what did you accomplish. Nothing vs a group of people attempting to warn others about bad programs for what ever reason they felt it was bad. Hope you have found great relief and happiness in what you accomplished. I will have no further comments about this subject.
Merlin are you now admitting that Rob makes and had made money from that forum for 7 years by advertising scams ponzis getrichschemes and all the while you all condoned that action as long as he gave you and other members the right to belittle, slander every PO & their members who didn't agree with you?????
Your way of warning people about bad sites just doesn't work, gptb does not have any credibility or authority to boycott sites. And again you ASSUME we get paid for backing a good site named BGPM and good PO named Bill, we, too do so because we know the site is a good site and not for payment, is that so hard to believe and yet you expect us to believe that what you are doing what you do is for a good cause, not likely not after the vendettas you showed in the BG thread & other threads.
But anyway this is about forums and most others do not put themselves above all other forums or POs by boycotting sites and dragging them through the mud, so people need to be made aware of the tactics of gptb.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Monday March 3, 2008 @ 9:49 PM
Merlin you say that you are just members tired of getting ripped off and scammed. So why is it so hard to believe that we are just members that are tired of certain places bashing and harming good paying honest sites on little or no facts? Sites such as boycott that do not bother to find out if the complaints they have received are real or not. Boycott uses only 10 complaints (that are not verified.) to decide if any site should be put on the boycott list. If any site has several thousand members it will not be too hard to find 10 people that think they have a viable grudge. When in reality it usually comes down to the fact that they never took the time to read the tos. Yet they run to different sites like boycott and put in a complaint and then find out they had nothing to complain about in the first place. However those complaints are not removed and are used to try and damage good sites like BGPM. Yes I stand up in defense of BGPM of which I am a member. I do this because I am tired of others making up lies to discredit this and ANY honest and paying site.
by spiderella (PM , CC ) on Monday March 3, 2008 @ 9:58 PM
This will definately be my last comment on this blog. All I am going to say is Jacquie or whatever your name is....I ADMITTED TO NOTHING,I SAID ROB MAY BE MAKING MONEY. I HAVEN'T THE FOGGIEST IDEA IF HE MAKES MONEY OR NOT. I DO KNOW THAT I DON'T GET PAID FOR WHAT I SAY,WRITE OR WHAT EVER ACTS I DO AS A MODERATOR THERE. SO THEREFORE YOUR CLAIM IS A LIE,PLAIN AND SIMPLE. You take a simple statement and twist it into what suits you all. Like I said in my first post,an attempt to have a reasonable and rational discussion with you on this is a waste of time and energy. You twist the truth,or what you feel is the truth and then attempt to blow it all out of proportion. These post are my opinion and my opinion only,not Robs,BDs,or anyone else and not on behalf of Gptboycott. It's just one persons opinion that you are not seriously attempting to discuss forums,you are just continuing your vendetta for the Boycott of Bgpaymail.
Merlin or whatever your name may be, btw mine is Jacquie no whatevers, why are you being agressive and shouting, my statement is exactly that, mine and no there is no vendetta just making sure that everyone knows how gptb works and twisting definitely is a trait of yours not mine.
The blog was started by Jason to discuss forums and I'm sure if there was something odd or unjust with other forums it would have been mentioned by now but early days it may come.
And again if someone has something to say about gptb that YOU do not agree with it is classed as a lie. You've just proven another point about members of gptb that a rational and reasonable discussion is not possible with MOST members of gptb without namecalling & belittling. Have a good night,calm down, don't waste your energy now.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Monday March 3, 2008 @ 11:27 PM
Hmmmmmmmmm, aren't moderators of forums supposed to be objective and unbiassed?
And, aren't they the ones who are supposed to ensure that the rules of etiquette (gptb DOES have them) are abided?
Could that not be part of the problem with why those forums ARE the way they are?
How can a moderator be objective and unbiassed when they threaten to report people to IRS, PayPal, and other authorities, or gloat with little green smiles when they see that people were reported and banned or whatever?
What kind of credibility does THAT give to a forum that is supposed to be for the purpose of stamping out scam?
PO's of forums that go MIA when things heat up, and moderators that either claim "lives of their own" or are so narrow minded that they can't be objective to both sides of an issue are, IMO, some of the MAIN reasons to stay away from them. How can any GOOD come out of that?
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Tuesday March 4, 2008 @ 12:40 AM
Merlin, I do not know you from the man next door. I started this blog to discuss the pros and cons of forums related to PTR programs and whether they can be trusted to tell the truth about PTR programs or if they are biased in favor or against certain PTR programs.
I do not mind opinions even if they differ from my own.
If you wish to share why you feel that the forum you are referring to is a good forum, then please do so. If you wish to say why you think 10 unverified complaints for any program is grounds for a justifiable boycott and/or why subjective issues are used to place some programs on the list such as program owners personality...then please feel free to share why you feel it is ok to do those things.
However, coming in expecting to have your comments deleted shows you come in on the defensive and are ready to jump at those who have different views/outlooks than your own regarding forums.
Please do share your opinions as stated above, but please do not come here to post and start accusing others of twisting things and or belonging to one program.
I really do not understand how someones opinion makes them twisting the truth as you put it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and should be accepted for what they are.
I want people to share experiences with forums related to PTR. So Merlin feel welcome to share your opinions on your experiences with forums, nothing more, nothing less. Thank you
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Tuesday March 4, 2008 @ 1:20 AM
While it is hard to remain objective with sharing personal experiences with some forums, it still needs to be shared. If, for anything but to direct the public to go to the forum stated to see for themselves, and develope their own opinions.
Many, like myself, who spoke good things about a program they were discussing to boycott, have been bashed, demeaned, and had words twisted.
No one likes to be treated like that, nor is it good to have the topic of discussion derailed by personal attacks on character.
Sad to say, though, IMO, I think the owners of forums allow such for drawing attraction to their sites. After all, is not sensationalism used much to attract attention on TV - per se, as in the well known Jerry Springer, a talk show host who used such to profit in the US?
It's entertainment that draws high ratings, and it is high ratings that draws advertisers.
So, what better to do than to use false pretence (creating vague rules and "supposedly," the power to boycott on the basis of rumor or opinions rather than facts) and allowing the bashing in posts to earn money from advertising?
I have no problem with entertaining to earn money from advertising. But, then, I DO think it should be noted as such, and, do away with their claim to their "purpose." It's wrong to hurt people or GPT programs in the process. That's why I think something must be done about it. Especially those that deal with boycotting or using black listing.
So, I think the best way to handle this is to keep doing things like Jason is doing here. And, hope that, eventually, these forums either revamp their vague rules and stop allowing the personal attack posts, or that they just disappear before they damage the reputation of the GPT Industry any further.
You know, even IF gain from advertising IS a main purpose, I think using objectivity and creating better rules would be more effective on the industry than the methods they are using now.
Of course that would involve much dedication and time to verify complaints, editing out posts that are disrespectful, and such, but, in the long run, isn't the road to long-term profits in business based on honesty, integrity, respect, hard work and dedication to the "purpose" of the business?
Products or services will not sell well if the company doesn't back such with the quality of the product or service they provide.
There is no quality in bashing, personal insults and, so forth. There is no quality in using haphazzard rules and impromtu whims that need no verification to boycott All that does is cause eventual loss of public interest in the business.
So, while sensationalism may work for awhile, I think it is like cutting off one's nose to spite their face. People will be attracted, but, turn away in disgust.
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Wednesday March 5, 2008 @ 12:16 PM
Merlin, you said:
'I ADMITTED TO NOTHING,I SAID ROB MAY BE MAKING MONEY. I HAVEN'T THE FOGGIEST IDEA IF HE MAKES MONEY OR NOT.'
yet you posted at gptB talking to me:
merlin; 'I am also sure that Rob would probably want to thank you for the additional pages views you have created as for some reason all of a sudden the page views/people views has increased several hundred in the last few hours'
And didn't you also made this statement here:
merlin: ' I am slowly coming to the conclusion that maybe the bgpaymail people,might not be too far wrong in their conclusion that this forum has developed into a traffic forum for google adsense and nothing else matters'
Looks to me that you may know exactly what is going down there.
and then this here:
merlin 'Come on and get serious...you only have to read your own comments toward me on your own forum,the AC article and what you did on Gptboycott to know your attempting to blow smoke where the sun don't shine.'
Was it not YOU that I caught in lying? And did YOU not admitted so yourself by posting this at YOUR Forum:
merlin: 'Ok,this comes as a hard thing for me to admit,as it was pointed out to me by a couple of people I consider as great friends in this internet world that I actually did make those statements.'
'Seems' to me that you sure doing plenty of lying and changing your mind when it comes to gptB.
You are also one of those who report others to PP and the IRS and who knows where else, that would make you Rob's #1 snitch and Informer
I apologize to Jason for this post, but I'm really sick and tired of this double standards and lies that I see at gptB and to know the smoke they attempt to blow where the sun don't shines.
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 9, 2008 @ 4:18 PM
WOW!!! I can not believe how a handful of people at the boycott forum are so intent on trying to discredit one PTR program.
One thing I do not understand, which of those attempting to discredit Bgpaymail is still a member? For disliking a program so badly why belong? Couldn't be somebody wants their cake and eat it too, nah they don't want paid do they, they just want to find dirt anything that they can twist into something horrendous.
Another thing, why reopen an old thread about Bgpaymail? Oh that's right, the other thread was about Amy and her AC article that was linked on "Bills" program. Of course we couldn't link Bgpaymail to that kind of vague title could we?
For all the wool they are attempting to pull over peoples eyes, they are blinding themselves to the truth. The simple truth is they are obsessed with one PTR program that they deemed boycott material.
The issue can be turned 29 ways into Sunday but the truth is, the handful of members always popping in to add their 2 cents to any thread involving Bgpaymail in an attempt to discredit those who have put their feet down saying enough is enough.
Sure there are those who keep track of what Boycott does. And maybe that makes them a bit obsessed, but in this case I don't think so. In this case the more the little children at boycott keep talking the more ammunition they give to those wishing to point out how the boycott forum is there for themselves.
I keep watching and the more they write the more they discredit themselves.
The players in this saga are nothing more than those who have a need to feel better than others and a need to feel like they belong to the "IN" crowd. Sad really, to think that adults have a need to rationalize their comments and behaviors to justify their actions.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @ 1:18 PM
Only online would someone be allowed to be convicted on such subjective evidence.
Maybe those in the know, would care to share the answers to those asked in the forum.
Boycott was started supposedly to warn others of non paying sites. Yet when it came to Bgpaymail a webmasters personality was grounds for boycott. Why is that? I remember defunct programs whose owners did not always answer politely if at all. They paid those they wanted to pay and no one else, yet they never even made it to the boycott lists.
How can 10 complaints from any program be enough to warrant a boycott? 10 complaints on some sites is less than one tenth of that programs member base.
The list could go on. Why are all those programs with ridiculous offers of hundred dollar emails not on the boycott list?
In fact the page views are more important to the owner of the site. He has chosen specific people to operate his site knowing that the soap opera rantings brings views.
In a court of law a judge would have laughed you alls evidence out of the court room.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @ 1:28 PM
I think cooler heads need to prevail..
First off , I think a blog like this can be very helpful and constructive , if we all can try to remain friendly..
When I started in the business quite some time ago , I felt forums could be and should be quite helpful..
You got to hear from others about programs , you could do research , on sites and find out what others were saying and could make a discussion on whether or not a program would be a good one to join or not.. Not to say , the opinions were right or not , still helpful if you took the time to read..
Than after awhile , of being around for awhile , you started noticing some disturbing facts.. You started seeing the sames names over and over again , proclaiming this and that in support of their favorite sites ,drawing more and more unknowing people to trust and join under them in some horrible sites.
If however you disagreed with them , you were bashed over and over. Than it just became one big fighting match . I not even talking about the Boycott forum.. Than came the Boycott forum.. I was delighted.. I was like yes , somewhere to go to voice our complaints. And it started out great. But than , it as well as other forums became much of the same. But worse in my opinion..
Silly me , thought , that this forum would be different. But its wasn't..
I have came to one conclusion. Pretty much most forums are the same. Cause of one reason. Ran by people. Everyone has an opinion and figure instead of listening , we can all yell over the other people. Everyone else is wrong ,and we (I) are right..
I think forums , should be for information and discussion. Not somewhere you hate to go because of all the fighting and bickering.. To say I am perfect , would be a lie. I can't say , I have not gotten involved in these discussions. Cause I have. But I have found that , its to no avail.. So now I say my peace and go on.
Am I upset , how things have ended up yes. Am I disappointed at some forums , more than 1 , have turned out yes. But my life goes on. I am not going to let it take me over like I once did. And I suggest others need to learn to do the same.. It will be healthier for all that are involved..
Thank you Jason , for starting a blog like this.. And yes , I think there are things that can be improved on at the gptB forum but a many others as well..
by Tammy (PM , CC ) on Monday March 10, 2008 @ 1:37 PM
Good questions, Jason, and, as a result, many, like Tammy, become saddened to see the same as I saw.
As naive as I was when I was a novice in the GPT Industry, I trusted the Boycott to guide me into being successful at working with GPT. I didn't pay so much mind at the fairness of needing only 10 complaints or their insinuous methods of boycotting.
What I DID pay heed to was that list of boycotted sites and, of course, what they were saying in forums about programs I was thinking of joining.
And, for awhile, there was not nearly the mudslinging that there is today, what with that group they have controlling the forums while there is lack in administration and moderation.
And, yes, like Tammy, I got more and more discouraged by what I saw, and simply stopped going there. Who needs such childish bickering? Even at that, I would occassionally pop into the boycott site, hoping to see that some administrator or moderator had stepped in and took back control.
I am a member of BGPayMail, so, when it was brought to my attention that it was being discussed at the boycott I couldn't believe it.
We all knew of the problems Bill was having (he was reported to PayPal and the site was hacked), but, we KNEW and trusted Bill (a webmaster who would surprise us with payments before we even requested them) to the point of knowing that once the problems were resolved, business would return as usual.
But, alas, a newer member, perhaps not yet at the stage of trusting, inquired about BGPayMail at the Boycott forums.
That's all it took to open a can of worms.
I was among those who dared to defend BGPayMail and I did so with all my heart, wearing myself thin, protesting the mudslinging, arguing issues, and, yes, even getting personal, myself. What really hurt was when a long absent moderator came in with a biassed attitude.
The thread was closed, opened, and then closed again. And, eventually, BGPayMail was put on the Watch list and, then boycotted.
The "discussion" was then carried on to the section of the forum for "Discuss Boycotted Programs."
Needless to say, after over 2,000 posts, the subject of BGPayMail was no longer of interest to the mudslingers.
But, much was learned about the boycott site by us members in the process of that battle, and we chose to fight the injustice and unfairness of their boycotting methods - not only because our favorite program had been boycotted, but, because we feel the NEED to save the GPT Industry from destruction by that vicious boycotting site. (There's a lot more going on than mudslinging and pretence of boycotting to "help" the Industry.)
All in all, BGPayMail has survived the boycott, as so many other GPT programs have. More and more webmasters AND members of GPT are realizing the farce that Boycott really is - and they are standing up against them by refusing to let Boycott tell them how to run their sites or subject themselves to them from fear of being boycotted.
The battle for BGPayMail may have been lost (boycotted), but, the war has only begun. More and more are questioning the procedures and the ethics of the Boycott site, the true purpose of it's owner, and the group that controls their forums.
So, once again, Jason, I DO thank you for bringing out the concerns that truly need to be addressed about forums.
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 13, 2008 @ 10:11 AM
I have been watching some of the postings at these independent forums discussing PTR programs and am coming to the conclusion that they are not forums to rely on when choosing a program to belong to.
Program forums generally have both positive and negative feedback from members. I think those forums are best for information.
It appears there are a small group of people intent on ruling the roost of PTR programs and are making attempts to gain control which in the end is beneficial to only those in the group.
For instance, at GPF a program owner is trying to take the banning lists of programs with PTP another step further. The premise is that the PTP pages contain pornography. Depending on where one is from the definition of pornography varies.
These yes men were the ones who started the initial banning lists. I will not get into this at this time but want to point out how a few people at these independent forums attempt to control all PTR programs implying it is for the better of the member. One big justification they use is that on top of pornography these pages are full of bugs to hurt your computer.
While nice in theory it has one major flaw. People who do not do PTR who turn on the internet are still subject to the same problems.
Then you have boycott who provides the list of programs boycotted or needing to boycott and combining the two forums together finding the same players shows the relationship and possible intent for their own possible gain.
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Thursday March 27, 2008 @ 10:32 AM
Thank you again for this great blog Jason.
As you say some want to be Gods of the PTR Industry and not only by trying to tell POs how to run their site but they resort to intimidation and bullying, Merlin2307 a moderator and informant for PP & the IRS & Dazhiredgun the co-owner who is supposedly a policeman have stolen a private receipt from my imagecave account albeit a public album and posted it at their vile forum together with my full name showing, which is against their own rules so it does prove that they think they are the rulers of PTR. And for a policeman to steal property from a public place I wonder what the supermoderator who is supposedly an ex-Judge thinks of their action specially that of a policeman so my joke about them wasn't too far wrong a real mafia set up. A forum owned by a wannabe lawyer (been studying for nearly 8 years apparently) & a cop, moderated by an informant of Paypal & the IRS and an ex Judge and then you have the lynch mob, although they are few by they are definitely a lynch mob.
All I can say is they have showed all that they have no decency, credibility and definitely no Legal License or rights to be doing what they are. My name has been out there since the 23rd so it doesn't really matter now but it's the principle, I thought I'd let all know how they work and I may even put their name here depends on how low I decide to stoop but then would it really be stooping or fighting for what I believe in.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Saturday March 29, 2008 @ 3:56 AM
These are a few samples of merlin's reply
(Name Removed) No I will not remove the post,simply because as the saying goes "something smells rotten in Denmark" and the rotten smell is those two receipts,the blocking out of the letterhead,the insulting and degrading remarks you made about Wil. The rest of you at bgforum,go ahead keep it up with your insults. You will accomplish nothing,except showing how childlike your acting. As to your new questions on the operations here......you stand a fat chance in you know what of getting anyone to answer. As always....JMO....Merlin
Hehehehe it seems he doesn't know what a letter head is.
and this one
To (Name Removed): I can be just as childlike as you are and type your name in here and on blogs and in emails,if I want. It is not a power trip,I don't do power trips,never have in 57 years of life on this planet earth and don't intend on doing it now or ever. Here's childlike attitude for every time my name is typed in bgpaymail forum or email I will type yours or moehalexzo's in here double what you "ladies and gents" do over there. How's that for tit for tat (Name Removed)? As always....JMO....Merlin
this one is a doozie
You,and the others need to apologize for your vile attacks upon Freecashspace,BD,me and most of all ROB AND THE OTHER MEMBERS,AND PUT YOUR HATRED,CUZ BGPAYMAIL GOT BOYCOTTED TO BETTER USE. I was and still am mentally a soldier,and I can carry this war YOU ALL started till they pry this keyboard from my cold dead hands as the saying goes. The choice is up to you the members of Bgpaymail.
and this from the co-owner cop who stolen from my album, wonder if he steals from public places.
Not only did I save the above image, I saved the entire page;
There you have it, a sample of how the Gods of the PTR Industry act.
Judge for yourselves.
Oh BTW, I have been getting a lot of spam during the past week, I just wonder where they're coming from!!
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Saturday March 29, 2008 @ 5:16 AM
Well looks like boycott forum closed the thread on bgpaymail but it was done with stipulations attached. Seems that pietro wants to look like the big man on campus by closing the thread but sounds like he will open the thread back up if bgpaymail doesnt bow down to his wishes.
I guess they just dont get it. Its about closing it and leaving it closed since bgpaymail was boycotted. This aint a schoolyard.
Man oh man, why not be the man an let it closed regardless of what bgpaymail does.
Oh well, you all wont be satisfied ever no matter what. Ya been asked questions about your boycott rules amongst other questions and you all choose to ignore them and play games. Problem is yall act like a gang and where im from gangs usually get what they give an then some.
Time will tell but looks to me like boycotts gonna open the thread back up. Havent any yall heard ya play with fire your gonna get burnt?
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 30, 2008 @ 11:54 PM
Wow, looks like merlins been around. 8 states and 21 addresses. hmm Id say dont through stones when ya live in a glass house.
Im beginning to believe that people who are interested in PTR should check out each programs own forum before wondering into generalized forums where they seem to be full of negativity.
Just beware dont believe everything read be it good or bad about a program. It will take time and your own personal experience to start relying on your own instinct.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Monday March 31, 2008 @ 12:07 AM
Yes Jason, he sure has been around supposed to be an ex IRS employee but then also a retired chef hehehehe, maybe mcdonalds LOL,those diplomas must have come from the bubblegum machine oh also a wizard so what did he really retire from I wonder.
I agree if you are in PTR and have a problem work it out with your WM, there are bad ones out there but most are good and are willing to work things out, if you can't then walk away, warn your friends if need be but do not go to that forum if you value your privacy.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Thursday April 3, 2008 @ 9:11 PM
I've come to the conclusion that some generic forums such as gtpb are totally useless as far as accurate information in regards to ptr programs.
I just read there a praise by one of the regulars, it is an attempt to sway people into believing the owner is interested and keeping abreast of the issues.
There are some ways that we can all keep ourselves a bit safer when joining programs. One would be check out the advertising prices. If they are selling ads for less than they actually cost, you know that you as a single solitary clicker have not much chance of being paid.
Beware of those who preach about how a program should run and those who pretend they are concerned with iframes, etc. as they have been found to post in some less visible forums about how to take advantage of the programs that are new and here to scam you. They join forces and click themselves to payout and share the kitty.
If you go visit a program and get that gut feeling about it, listen to it. It means something is amiss despite those saying its the best program since sliced bread.
Above all else ptr is actually meant to be a way of finding good deals on things we wish to buy. PTR should not be taken as a way to make a living, very few are able to do that. In fact, there is one forum set up to give programs some seal of approval as paying sites, bottom line there, the owner belongs to sites being advertised as good, has huge downlines and earns off the single solitary clickers work.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Tuesday April 8, 2008 @ 1:21 PM
Well said again Jason.
As far as those beenpaid seal of approval, I have my own suspicions about those, I have been with 2 sites that have disappeared without paying members and yet not a word said about those gptb, why would that be?
I am at another site who late last year got their seal of approval but since then the value of mails have gone downnnnnnnnnnnnnnn and less mail, I can barely make the $1 payout now where before the mail were mostly for 1/4cent now they are .00000? so much for advertising and getting myself a downline, used to be good but slowly going downhill and I really don't see it lasting the year. So that will be 3 sites with that famous SEAL that will disappear without so much as a boooo, why???? because the forum that awards those seals are under the same umbrella as gptb. So I would steer clear of sites with those seals. JMO
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @ 5:35 AM
I feel a lot of the forums are good, especially ones asociated with a specific site. One I defintely DON'T TRUST is GPT boycott. I trust them about as much as I can throw a car. Otherwise most of the others are fairly good.
by renedolphin (PM , CC ) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @ 7:11 PM
Well 'usdollars' is administration at 'been paid' and also a 'Sponsor Associate' at gptB so in a way, I say one hands washes the other?Or one cheers the other on?
As far as those sites on the been paid list, yes, many disappeared and nothing is mentioned, and most of those sites do have a very small membership count also and yeah, it takes forever to reach payout if at all clicking those 0.000? links, so what are those seals really good for?
'PTRinfo', 'Been Paid' and 'gptB' sure seem to be working very closely together, makes you really wonder. When a site is boycotted, at the same time 'been paid' and 'PTRinfo' know about it instantly and act upon, like PTRinfo will put the 'boycotted' sign on that site (if it is listed there) that may has been in the #1 spot,had positive votes , but yet they decide, NOT the members who vote, but the admin of PTRinfo.Kind of defeates the purpose of members who like the site to vote and report payouts.
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Thursday April 10, 2008 @ 8:56 PM
I'm regrouping here and focussing on the question.
The only independent forums I know of are GPTBoycott and GPForum, and, from what I see there is so much bias, mudslinging,lying and personal attacks that you have to weed through it all just to find even snippits of sincerety and truth.
Rarely do the topics at hand stay on the subject. And, there seems to be a group who thinks they are a hierarchy who can rule over all and defame anyone who dares to disagree with their opinions. Plainly, they are bullies and will use incite, name calling, and even falsely report those who disagree with them to authorities to damage them further. They will lie and twist your own words to their benefit.
Without unbiased moderators who know the meaning of the position, any forum can become a mudsling pit controlled by trolls.
It's all there, plain to see - the same group in both forums and tied into "Been Paid" and "PTRinfo."
All in all, I'm more apt to see the truth in PTR site forums (that are NOT independent from a site), where the site owner can keep up with it to keep it clean, or has a good moderator who knows the meaning of moderating.
So, another way to see if a program suits you is to check out their forum, if they have one. Look at the "tones" of the posts. You'll be able to tell how well it is moderated. No, no one has to agree on every issue, but, if you see tones of "netiquette," and interaction from the owner and / or moderator, it's also a good chance the site owner is honest and has integrity.
So, IMO, "independent" forums (like GPTBoycott and GPF) that deem themselves the authority to boycott or blacklist are NOT truthful. And, no, they are not at all HELPFUL. GPTBoycott rules and their complaint system leave too much leeway for false complaints and no way to verify them in a fair manner that can justify a boycott.
by ladywrenn (PM , CC ) on Saturday April 12, 2008 @ 3:54 AM
I am not sure about a witch hunt, but I think that some forums go on witch hunts, let me rephrase that, certain people tend to use forums for their personal witch hunts by starting threads that are not true or jumping into a negative discussion about a site that is not on their list of sites to promote.
There is more and more circumstantial evidence making me believe that there are specific ties between 2 forums which is for the benefit of those forum owners, nothing more, nothing less.
Forums can be a good source of information but it all depends on who is in that forum posting. When a small group of people jump in trying to persuade others to jump on their wagon, about certain sites especially when it comes to boycotting, I feel those people turn those forums into witch hunts.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Saturday April 12, 2008 @ 4:16 AM
I have been pondering this boycott forum for a while now. And while the general idea behind boycotting is to protect others from sites that wont pay them, is a nice idea in its simplicity but, in reality it is far from being accurate.
Personally I feel only members of programs being looked at should be allowed to place a complaint about said site AND they should have to give their user name of said site so that the complaint can be discussed with the programs owner to find out if it was an oversite, or if the member is a cheater or it is just a plain bogus complaint due to personality conflicts.
Any person filing a complaint who refuses to give their username should have that complaint thrown out as it can not be verified.
The 10 complaints needs to be increased in proportion to a sites member base.
And, the word boycott should be removed and they should have a list of sites that they feel are join at your own risk based on the following verified complaints.
Also, if moderators can not moderate and be unbiased, those moderators should be removed from their position as they tend to sway others as an authority figure by posting their opinions.
I think as far as the boycott forum goes, they have proved without a doubt that they are incapable of having a fair process in boycotting sites and they have no intention of changing the current format.
What I found odd is the owner of the site refused to show up to answer questions posed to him by others, yet showed up to thank 4 people for posting a kiss-butt thread about how great the place is. Go figure.
Anyhow, I think to those unsure about a program they are thinking about joining, if they have a forum go to it. If you have a gut feeling listen to it.
Forums are only as good as those who frequent them, and only as informative based on the content posted. If you see the same handful of people degrading, belittling, etc., ignore it and do what you feel best when it comes to joining any program.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Saturday April 12, 2008 @ 4:31 AM
I am Michelle Doty of PTR Police (ptr-police.com). My site has been operational for almost 4 years. Although I agree with most of what you stated in your post, I would appreciate it if you would not make any connection between my site, PTR-Police and GPTBoycott. I do not condone their methods in any way. My site, PTR-Police.com has been a source for honest programs and has always exposed scams to it's members. I have never "turned in" anyone to Paypal or any other source. I would appreciate either or retraction of that paragraph or rephrasing it without use of PTR Police. Thank you
by linksgal (PM , CC ) on Saturday April 12, 2008 @ 12:37 PM
Linksgal, I checked back up a few comments and didn't see PTR-Police mentioned at all. I think you must have taken PTRInfo as meaning PTR-Police maybe. Not sure.
PTRInfo is a site where members get to vote for their sites, which reminds me before the site was sold members used to be able to sign their comments with either their username or whatever but since being sold you cannot put in a username to your comments which is similar to gptboycott. I have put in two comments recently for BG and they were not accepted but the negative ones seems to be accepted so I'll let you all think about that.
by linksgal (PM , CC ) on Sunday April 13, 2008 @ 1:35 PM
Links Gal. You have asked Jason to remove a comment about ptr police in his original article. I have gone back and read that and could not find any place Jason said ptr Police.
However
On march 2nd I posted the following:
Thank you Jason for the informative and on target article. I am glad to see more and more people coming forward and helping to get the word out about the so called PTR Police/crusaders as you called them. Keep up the good work.
If this is what you are referring to then please let me post this for all.
I was not mentioning Linksgals (Michelle Doty) site (ptr-police.com) in any way. I was referring to the way that GPTB class themselves as policing the ptr industry and crusade against sites they don't like. Sorry for any confusion. Hope this helps clear up any problems.
by spiderella (PM , CC ) on Monday April 14, 2008 @ 2:44 AM
Thanks for clearing that up. My site has always been for the clickers and never speaking for the whole PTR world. You know false information can spread and I just wanted to protect the good name of PTR Police. Thanks again!
by linksgal (PM , CC ) on Thursday April 17, 2008 @ 11:22 AM
Hello
First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Jason for starting this very informative blog and also everyone who has contributed. I have often felt alone with my views about this subject and this has shown me otherwise, for which I am most grateful.
I too have a program that is on the so-called boycott list and despite tireless efforts by both myself and my fiancée to prove that it should not be there, our program remains one of the most vehemently targeted.
Like BGPayMail, we run paying Programs (8 of them) and provide, in my view, great support. Yes, we have disgruntled Members who have had lost their accounts for either cheating or breaking ToS, but if we don't obey our own Terms, how can we expect our Members to. Some of the comments on 'that' forum, leading to the boycott of our Program state that their support questions were ignored. This is a complete fabrication as all support emails were always answered. We later discovered that some replies were not getting back to their originators, especially those using Yahoo email addresses, but that is a different story as any web host will know. With this being an issue, we now use a support ticket system and replies are always shown, even if the Member does not get the notification email - they can view the ticket at anytime.
The main reason for us appearing on the list were for supposedly being a 'runner' PO. Would a 'runner' PO still be here, 5 years later, operating eight, paying PTR Programs? Yes, I was offline for a few months due to family and other personal issues in the 'Real World', but I was able to leave the program that I was 'responsible' for in trustworthy hands, with a promise that it would be looked after and data would be kept safe. I was in touch with a certain person, albeit over my mobile (cell) phone, but due to costs involved (I was in UK, they in the States), regular contact was difficult. It has since come to light that the person concerned didn't pass on the fact that I was in contact and led everyone to believe that I had completely disappeared. I was unable to get onto the 'net during that time and when I eventually managed to get back, everything was gone, including the host with the site and data. However, the program I was 'responsible' for was NOT and IS NOT my Program. Yes, we made announcements that I was to take over and that was always my intention - to reduce the site debt and make the program viable. But, as it was pointed out by many people (including those who are NOW saying that I DID own the Program), I could not possibly own the Program as it was being run by an Incorporated Company and that there were legal reasons why I could not. I found this to be true and had negotiations with the owner which ended in her agreeing to forward the relevant sign-over documentation to me, with a view to me fully taking over. This never happened! Not apportioning any blame, but is it my fault that the most important aspect of the take-over was not initiated by the previous/current owner?
What IS my fault, was getting into something that would, with hindsight, cause me a lot of pain. I don't regret trying to help and if all had worked out, the program concerned would probably still be here and all of it's Members paid. I didn't promise any quick fixes, but I was (and still am) confident that it could have worked. There was a huge site debt, but I'm sure that could have been recovered over time. Not blaming the Members (I was one myself and it owed me around $200), but it was abundantly clear that ads were being undersold and would never cover the running costs and payouts promised. Members clicked in good faith and I guess carried on in the vain hope that all would turn out for the best. People have got to remember that the site owner actually closed the site and declared bankruptcy BEFORE I got involved. My intentions were honourable even if, at best, unrealistic. In my view and in the eyes of the law, as no legal exchange or transfer of the site to me ever took place, the status of that site reverted to how the original/current owner left it - CLOSED. How can I be a 'runner' PO when a) The site was not mine & b) How can anyone run with 'debt' - there is no money in debt, what benefit would I get from that? I (and my fiancée) am paying an extremely high price, for a mistake that I made, with the very best intentions, but due to circumstances beyond my control, failed. I do feel, at best, very bad about it and if there was anything I could have done to rectify the situation, I certainly would have. In hindsight, I should have never got involved, but I couldn't predict what was going to happen in my personal life shortly after this started, nor that the owner would not follow through with the transfer.
There are many more details and lots of proof that I could show, but this blog is not about me - I just thought it relevant to post some background information. Please, Jason, by all means edit this if you feel that this information should not be here - I will fully understand.
We have submitted huge amounts of personal information to GPTB in our defence, but alas this has been ignored. Most of it proves that some of the comments made by the 10 'Complainers' are fabricating their stories. The majority, if not all of these people, have never even been a member of our boycotted Program. As always, it is a group of people that wish to cause trouble and then there are those that just 'jump on the bandwagon' to try and get to be popular in that forum. One in particular was a Member and had good support and kept praising us for the great site and for being helpful to them. Then within the time it takes to blink, he turns tables and agrees with everything they say - since then he has been instrumental in the banning of other Programs on that forum. He even had the nerve to come to us afterwards, join all of our programs behind 'their' backs and become one our most supportive Members. Was he a 'plant' or mole? Probably, but we have nothing to hide.
We have tried in vain to get the Program removed. Originally, the 'List' was for Programs that didn't pay. When we challenged this, the rules magically changed. So we are on the list for being associated with another Program which has nothing to do with us. GPTB and it's core 'contributors' are hypocritical and everything else that is reported in this blog. They posted personal information and false accusations, some of which we did manage to get removed, but there are still many more. We have even tried to approach their host and have submitted legitimate complaints, only to get the same reply over and over "I will cooperate with any legal authority that you may contact with your complaints", but their Terms state: "*********Hosting will cooperate with legal authorities and/or injured third parties" - are we not the Injured Third Party?? I appears that even the host is in cahoots with them. GPTB break many of the host's own Terms as well as the host themselves.
Someone commented earlier in this blog that GPTB was a UK based forum. Whilst this may be true, they are actually hosted in the UNITED STATES - that may have some relevance.
There have also been some comments here with regard to Banned Lists. Whilst we DO have a banned list of sorts, it contains sites or Programs that we will not advertise on any of our Programs. This mainly contains site that have Viruses and other bad links and we will not willingly subject our Members to potentially dangerous downloads etc. Yes, there are other sites listed, but they are sites (or their owners) that have harmed us personally. After all, would ANY business advertise something that had caused them legal issues or defamation? We have a disclaimer at the top of our banned list stating that it contains personal views and does not necessarily mean that a listed site or Program is bad. This, I hope, will give the viewer a chance to make up their own mind.
I have been labelled a 'runner' PO, but I am still here. Any PTR PO would know that there are no vast fortunes to be made in this industry. The sites that we run do not make much of a profit, what little there is, goes back into the sites and we even use our own money to pay Members. Why do we do it? This industry used to be fun and we enjoy looking after Members and if a few cents or even dollars help them, then it is worthwhile. These days, with all the unnecessary hassles, we are thinking is it worth it - the answer is becoming more convincing, NO! We have considered selling the sites, but if we did, who has won? Certainly not us, the naysayers and bullies will have got their way. I am not in this to be popular or liked, I'm not that vain. But, I believe in honesty and fairness and I would hope to make this industry a better place. There are many good Programs out there with excellent POs. I am willing to learn and am still learning after many years in this field. I'm not too proud to take advice or criticism, but it must be constructive.
There is far too much negativity and there are at least three popular forums that generate this by the bucket load. Forums can and do have many good points, they can be a huge asset to Newbies and old hands alike. But, they need to be managed better. Moderators need to be objective and unbiased. They need to fully understand what is being said and who is saying it and not be afraid to stand up and take action against the small minority who clearly have no other objective but to cause disruption and bully. Some people may not have a great understanding of English, whether it is because it is not their first language or if they have communication issues. Misinterpretation is often the cause of many problems and we all need to be aware that the written word often does not show the emotion that the author is trying to communicate. We may read something that is the complete reverse of what the other person is trying to say. We should be helping these people, not bash and belittle them, as some do. If they use the wrong terminology, we should politely correct them, preferably in private so that they can edit their post in necessary.
Certain forums contain slanderous and/or libellous comments - depending on interpretation, as it is both the written word, but effectively 'spoken' - just a grey area I guess. In the 'Real World', which appears not to exist in the PTR world as I have found from personal experience (Does personal experience exist in PTR either?), a person could be sued for making derogatory statements amongst other things. The trouble is that these bullies are cocooned behind their computer monitors, effectively anonymous, with only their IP to show where they are - even that can be falsified. They don't worry about a knock on the door with someone serving them with a lawsuit or taking them outside for 'a bit of fresh air' to read them their horoscopes. If you were to meet these bullies in the street, they would run a mile.
What can we do? Jason, you have already started and so have all those who have contributed to this blog. We all need to make others aware of these bullies. I don't have all the answers, but I am willing to support this project in any way I can. Even if it is just promoting this blog and getting it seen. However, as I (we) run our own hosting company, I am willing to host a site, program or forum, free of charge, if anyone would like to help with this cause. I am not interested in profiting from it, but we could set up some sort of revenue earner if need be, to help the promotion in other areas. Due to my many other commitments, I would not be able to run it solely, but can help with the technical side and support in any way I can. Please PM me if I can help.
Apologies for such a long post, I hope it provides an insight as to my feeings. The general consensus appears to be that this blog is supported solely by Members of BGPayMail. Whilst I have heard of the Program, I know very little about it and I do not know the owner. However, we have a common cause and are being seriously affected by the same bullies etc. I fully expect to be called a liar, I am used to it - but I know the truth and so do others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it IS their opinion and not that of the dictatorship that this industry is being succumbed to. I do not pretend to be very religious, but the 'Big G' is my witness and the statements I have made here are truthful. I say again though, this blog is not about me, nor do I wish it to be, but the common issue is clearly the same - DOWN WITH THE BULLIES!
by TonyB (PM , CC ) on Tuesday May 6, 2008 @ 3:49 PM
I wanted to add to Tony's post just a bit more about our history with GPTB. They bent and changed the boycott rules to put us on the list. We fought hard to get our site off the boycott list, but our attempts were fruitless.
After a year of being on the list I contacted Rob and with new evidence and a years worth of no new complaints and good standing & paying members our site was removed from the boycotte list and put on the watch list.
I thought to my self cool the system may actually work and we have proven our selves. Boy was I wrong. The same people who got us boycotted, the same people who were not members of our program came in and with what even pure presser they had got us put back up on the boycott list. So once again the rules were bent and broken to put us back up there.
I once thought GPTboycott was a good idea but realized not long after it wasn't all that good. as programs that did run off with peoples money didn't make their list. I started to notice some sites going up that didn't disserve to be on there including our site. They went after US not our site and that's when they changed the rules to suit them selves not to protect clickers. Boycott has been tainted for along time. We have been called names and accused of some really nasty things and some of those attacks are still there to read.
I agree that forums can be a great place for info when the info is able to be given freely with out being attacked for your views.
I have to admit I have jumped on people who didn't always agree, but in most cases I was defending a friend, loved one or my self and I wont apologize for protecting them although I may have gone about it the wrong way.
Thanks Jason for your blog its nice to see others bringing to light and seeing the evil shadows lurking and we can all now see clearly who is pulling the strings in puppet shows on the many different stages of PTR
by GeorgieB (PM , CC ) on Tuesday May 6, 2008 @ 8:50 PM
Thank you for posting as it goes to show more and more that the one forum in particular is not providing a true service to the general public. You are also correct when you say 3 PTR related forums are closely tied together by a handful of people who have done nothing more than to cause more harm than good to PTR overall.
I don't know what any of us can do except to make people aware of what is taking place.
I mean some program owners are supporting the boycott forum for what I feel is some sort of protection against being targeted.
Personally I don't understand why people feel the need to try to undermine things but I do have my own suspicions as to why the select few ban together and attack like zealous hungry lions, those that do not have the same opinion.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Tuesday May 6, 2008 @ 9:28 PM
As you say Tony
Complainers are made up when needed.
Complaints are fabricated.
Neither can be verified so how genuine is that list!!
Their rules are changed to suit mainly on how much they have against the supporters of the site in question & how much they dislike the PO.
Moles are planted have no doubt about that.
Personal information, oh yes, once in their hands, it is no longer personal. If you haven't given it to them, they will search for it and even stoop to stealing it and using it against you.
There definitely is a link between those 3 forums.
GPTB owners think they are safe and can say/do/or allow to be said about anyone because of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page but they may soon find that not be be true.
Thank you for posting, it gives the readers a PO's opinion of gptb.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Sunday May 11, 2008 @ 1:09 AM
Glad to see other PO's taking a stand against gptB, thank you for posting Tony and GeorgieB .
BG has taking a stand against their wrong doings, their flawed boycotting procedures, their unfounded attacks and lies etc...and if you like you can post there too:
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Monday May 12, 2008 @ 11:36 AM
for most parts i think forums are truthful and do a lot of good there are a few untruthful people that would like to ruin some sites for others, but i think the worst of the lot has about run their course and found out they cannot push people around anymore. I want to thank you for trying to help with this forum and i think you have brought to a head things that should have never been allowed to happen to start with, and i think you for keeping this going and overseeing it. thank you.
by milliem2 (PM , CC ) on Tuesday May 13, 2008 @ 11:11 AM
I thought I would post again I am finding the happenings at gptb lately are turning against them so to speak. It is funny how Rod odd SAS is in there saying how can it be fair that M&S can come off the list because the poll is a bit one sided by members of the site voting YES it should come off the watch list.
What gets me is they don't seam to mind when the votes are in their favor when its to boycott or watch list a site. How is their voting against sites any different then members coming and supporting a site and PO they trust and respect. How is it when the table is turned its unfair and should not be allowed and when the votes are in their favor its all good and how its meant to work.
Rod is saying that anyone should be allowed to vote to boycott a site it should not just members who can vote. Now he is saying it should only be none members who can get it removed from the list. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Its the members who are getting paid and who are the ones who should have the say NOT the NON MEMBERS.
Table has turned and their little group of mudslingers can't fight against the masses of good and smart members of M&S.
But what are the odds the rules will be once again changed to keep M&S on the list.
I have also seen that Rob has decided to add Netwinner to the watch list. 5 complaints for a site that has over 50,000 member prob more but I am estimating. Netwinner is like my points some how I think Rob has bitten off more then he can chew.
by GeorgieB (PM , CC ) on Friday May 16, 2008 @ 7:39 PM
Well, well, well, look who all comes flying out of the woodwork to start throwing hissy fits over a site wanting to be removed from the watch list. What doesnt make any sense is those who want to keep it on the watch list keep harping on the members who were removed from the site either by their own choice or by previous owners, how in the devil can a new owner be responsible for debt wiped out and not in the database when they took over.
According to trulys book keeping tabs which I'd like to know where she got it from, the site has paid out like 4 grand in old debt and has what another 1800 to pay off. round that to say 6 grand total owed seems to me this new webmaster has paid off well over 50% of the debt if not closer to 70%.
To the bias, well the bias is on the nay sayers. Why was SAS never put on the watch or boycott list? Is the old debt there paid off?
Kind of ironic when you watch them all come together. You have a few ptr owners who have ptp and a traffic exchange owner who rules the roost over ptp sites shown.
Funny how there was such a big deal at SAS over so called porn on some ptp sites so the went with this new system of marking sites as safe, yet when I was there, there were ptp sites marked as safe with very scantily clothed females. How did they pass under the radar?
If you think about it, seems to me there is a small organized group attempting to keep the competition out by nefarious means. Maybe not who knows I guess its just another paranoid conspiracy, right?
And since when did it matter if someone is new to the boycott site voting? Heck non members can vote to boycott sites based on friends opinions.
Guess, since PTR is small potatoes, no worries about being sued for libelous/slanderous content and making judgment calls based on unverified complaints.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Saturday May 17, 2008 @ 2:57 AM
Yup Georgie, they showing their true faces again as usual. And this time even Rob is involved.Good thing is, Darlene (PO of M&S) is fighting back and I hope more PO will follow:)
And yes Jason,that place is nothing but a big joke, sad thing though, many newbies may believe everything that they spit out.
Best thing to do ,I think is, to get the word out and to show them for what they are.
And you doing a great job in doing just that by keeping this blog going:)
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Monday May 19, 2008 @ 11:58 AM
GeorgieB What gets me is they don't seam to mind when the votes are in their favor when its to boycott or watch list a site. How is their voting against sites any different then members coming and supporting a site and PO they trust and respect. How is it when the table is turned its unfair and should not be allowed and when the votes are in their favor its all good and how its meant to work.
I have also seen that Rob has decided to add Netwinner to the watch list. 5 complaints for a site that has over 50,000 member prob more but I am estimating. Netwinner is like my points some how I think Rob has bitten off more then he can chew. -------------------------------- Right GeorgieB, that's exactly how it works there, the more negative you are the more you are welcome.
Let him chew, let him chew the more he chews he will finally choke himself and his scamming forum offline.
----------------------------------- Jason If you think about it, seems to me there is a small organized group attempting to keep the competition out by nefarious means. Maybe not who knows I guess its just another paranoid conspiracy, right?
-----------------
Is it Jason? I don't think so, Beenpaid forum owns all ptp sites or would like to rule over them, haven't you noticed the new ptp sites that start and are doing well then suddenly you see the beenpaid award and the site's click values goes downs and slowly fades, why is that? I've been with 3 sites that have gone that way and yet no complaints about them on GPTB,they just disappear. I think gptb, beenpaidforum are definitely together and possibly gpt forum. Guess I'm paranoid too LOL.
As for M&S those NO votes will soon be rigged, notice the 'friends' from gpt forum and wiw forum slowly dribbling in? Bet there'll be more bogus complaints from bogus members which will put MS on the boycott list soon, that's what happened in BGPM's case. Why do you think merlin asked Rob if it was too late to put in a complaint, if not to urge others to do the same? They are up to their usual game.
by Jacquie (PM , CC ) on Tuesday May 20, 2008 @ 9:38 AM
I think we can safely say that gptB and GetPaidForum have a connection according to Rob himself some years back:
Rob For starters, GetPaidForum is a very successful forum discussing issues in the get-paid world. Boasting over 1638 members, this could be argued (along with the GPTBoycott forum) to be the biggest and most popular forum on the Internet discussing this industry. The two sites are intertwined closely, and they both promote each other
-----------------------------------------
And looks like the poll to remove M&S from the watchlist was just started to bring some more traffic there as it was dwindling before that.
Rob's latest post since the poll closed, but thread is left open:
Rob I will release the final results of the poll (taking into account those members who sent me a PM to change their original vote) soon, though the poll may not necessarily prove conclusive on the matter. The decision we make will be revealed and fully explained in the near future.
Think we can assume that the site will NOT be taken of the list, who knows, I may be wrong, but not holding my breath.
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Friday May 23, 2008 @ 2:27 PM
Well if it isnt removed and the vote turns in the favor of No leave it on the watch list. We can safley say Rob has publicly admitted to fixing the vote. 94 yes to 32 no is a huge spread......I guess time will tell.
by GeorgieB (PM , CC ) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @ 12:03 AM
And I find it very upsetting why have a pole in the first place if he can take so called PM's and alter the votes out come. I say once a vote has been given it stays. No matter what the votes are. I would say this whole process was a laugh if he does alter those first votes with those PM's.
If they do alter the vote using those PM's I suggest they post all the PM's sent.
by GeorgieB (PM , CC ) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @ 8:49 AM
Whose to say those pms even exist. Whose to say that he is not giving into pressure by those program owners who support him with their monetary contributions.
The entire process is flawed in favor of a handful of players be they program owners or members.
Time and again you can see the favoritism eek out in thread after thread. All one has to do is read.
by Jason (PM , CC ) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @ 1:53 PM
I have never heard that you can change a vote after already having voted to begin with.
What good is it to have a poll, when you can change your mind at any given time from 'yes' to 'no'?
Sounds to me to be a very crooked deal and like you said Jason, how is one to know those PM's even exist.
Yup Georgie, time will tell, from what I read there, I believe their were 3 who asked to change their vote (I could be wrong) but that would not bring the poll to a 'no' status anyway, so lets see what they do next.
Those who decided to change their vote (from what they posted) are from that handful of regular players there and as far as I know, they are not even members of M&S , nor have they been.
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @ 9:08 PM
Time DID tell, lol, and no, M & S was NOT removed from the Watch List - just as "expected." A trinketed "hope - giving" comment was placed there, though, lol.
It was all just a "traffic-getting" gimmick and a way to get "new member sign-ups" so they could take a "vote."
Anything to "get more members" so GPTBoycott can look "impressive" and hope for more people to "click" on ads from his affiliation with Bidvitiser.
That's ALL it is to Rob, nothing more. Because, if there WAS even a pinch of ethics of "netiquette" in him, he would be having his moderators editing MOST of the comments made by that "group" that bashes and incites to draw out the worst in honest posters.
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Tuesday May 27, 2008 @ 8:38 AM
Yup sure did they have their final decision and it stays on the list. I guess it boils down to run your site the way boycott say it should be run or pay the price.
Now your not allowed to have a hall of shame or terms that protect your sites.
Watch out soon all sites that have a GAG clause in their terms will be added to the watch/boycott list.
Just sad very very sad.
Boycott have just proven once again there is no structure to their system. And from the looks of it are not willing to make any changes. People can talk till they are blue in the face. What was the point in this poll. They had obvious already made up their minds before it was ever started.
Once again boycott changes the rules to suit them selves.....and how many of us predicted this.
by GeorgieB (PM , CC ) on Saturday May 31, 2008 @ 5:04 PM
Well even the following member at boycott think that the boycotting procedures are manipulated.
mcf Regardless of what we all thought of the TonyB/April soap a few years back (and it was one of the worst), it was obvious that the boycott of Bournemouthbreeze was instigated and pushed on by a member here and that the site was boycotted far sooner than a site with 112 members would have been in the normal course of events. So yes the boycott process can be manipulated from within.
And we knew that, bashing threads there are instigated and manipulated from inside, depends who you know there and who is friends with that circus.
GeorgieB and Tony, you are most welcome to post your thoughts about them here too:
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Sunday June 8, 2008 @ 10:01 AM
I know this might be a bit of subject but then again,in a way I strongly believe it is connected to gPTB Forum.
PTRInfo (a directory & Award site) does not allow PTR/PTC etc....sites to be removed from theirs if it's been boycotted and like in the case of BGPM they even went so far as to blocking praises, payments and those members that like to post, vote and comment about BgPayMail/Bill.
Are they licenced? Do they have the authority to do what they do? NO, 'they' have nothing and NO rights what so ever, just like gPTB who thinks they can control others site.
A few disgruntled gPTB members keep posting negative comments about BGPM and some of those I'am sure from some who never even belonged to BGPM.
Those posts are allowed by PTR Info even tho, just like at gPTB,NO username is allowed to be added to the post.
Makes me pretty suspicious as I see no reason NOT to add a username to a post but of course it is very confinient for those who are out to get a PO with lies, accusations, assumption etc..... and deceiving others.
gPTB allows complaints to be submitted using a fasle name and no username is required.No way any of those complaints can be verified yet sites are put on the watch and boycott list using those crooked procedures.
Lots of similarities between PTR INfo and gPTB.
There are some boycotted sites that PTR Info still allows advertising to be shown there, others, like BGPM,if you click on the link to visit the site or on that big ugly red sign that is there now instead the sites banner, it will take you to gPTB, NOT to the site itself.
So,several links are used from just one boycotted site to bring traffic to gPTB instead of letting others go to the site and decide for themselfs whether to join or not.
Linking a boycotted site to gPTB in 3 different places where it should go to the listed site directly is bias as can be and only provides more traffic for Rob (owner of gPTB) so I have to assume that those 2 sites, PTR Info and gPTB are working together to say the least and BGPM (and other sites, I'am sure) has been singled out on both places, even after being boycotted 2 years ago by using corrupted procedures,lies, false accusations and assumptions.
Another thing that I do NOT agree with is that the owner of PTR Info (carla) has all of her own sites listed there, in a directory and award site and has her own members vote/post payouts, write a review etc......
To me, not only does it not look legit to others but she also has an unfair advantage over other POs and their sites.
If you like to read more about it, just click the following link or c/p it in your browser if not clickable:
by halexzo (PM , CC ) on Sunday March 29, 2009 @ 3:30 PM
What halexo said is true. And, the "reviews" published at PTR Info are COPIES of long past posts made at GPTB - from as far back as to BEFORE BGPayMail was boycotted!(March 2007)
Reviews for BGPayMail have STOPPED at PTR Info for over a year until THEY (boycotters) started them back up in Dec. 2008, using NOT fresh material, but, OLD stuff. We supporters of BGPayMail are NOT the ones who brought BGPayMail up for review, but, we ARE contributing FRESH data in effort to fight against the efforts being made by GPTBoycotters in retaliation for our hard work to reveal the TRUTH about GPTB.
I, too, had some questions with the way PTR Info is being changed by the new owner.
This "redirect" link to gptb at PTR Info is one of them. That's why I submitted a ticket, thinking it was a fluke that needed fixed.
Not only was it NOT a fluke, but, PTR Info owner's reply even furthers my suspicion that GPTB is a "silent partner" of PTR Info.
In the business world, "silent partners" are those who "help" people who start a business or are in need of "support" to get an existing business out of trouble.
However, they do not want their "partnership" to be disclosed for whatever reasons - usually because of their "less than satisfactory reputation of being corrupt." Mafias do that all the time, not only as a means to launder money, but, to gain power, control, and never-ending money or "favors" by extortion.
Well, anyway, here is a c/p of the ticket I submitted to PTR Info, and a c/p of the owner's reply. Judge for yourself whether or not you think GPTB is a "silent partner" of PTR Info.:
(Keep in mind that silent partners want to hide their identity and vow those they help to secrecy. Which MEANS that the owner of PTR Info will deny any association to whom MAY BE the silent partner - the owners of GPTB)
My Ticket:
Created on: 2009-03-28 00:52:30
Message:
With all due respect for the GPT Industry I don't think it's appropriate to have "VISIT WEBSITE" take you to GPTBoycott instead of the site expected to be visited: in this case, BGPaymail.
I am hoping it is a glitch in your site, and, NOT a sneaky attempt to derail traffic to GPTBoycott!
If people want to learn about the site in review, let the link take them to the site that's being reviewed! Not GPTBoycott!
Which ever it is this is a request to FIX the problem.
Another thing. Who's running the show on PTR Info? You? Or the owner of GPTBoycott?
Seems to me that if clicking a link to "VISIT WEBSITE" takes the viewer to GPTBoycott instead of the site on the review page, the answer to who's running the show at PTR Info surely ISN'T YOU!
Regards, Donna Wike
PTR Info Response:
Date: 2009-03-30 05:32:04 Name: Administrator
Message:
the link directs to the thread about BG boycott discussion. So that anyone clicking on it can see reasons for boycott and also MANY boycott sites are SCAM or sites with nasties on them and we do not want to risk members being harmed by visiting a potential dangerous site from our site.... all boycotted sites are the same.
we are in no way associated with gptboycott.
we have never even spoken to the owner/s of that site. we simply use their services for the purpose they were intended to warn people of bad or dangerous sites that should be avoided. this is for the benefit of the gpt industry members.
I live in north carolina no idea where gptb is located. my ptrinfo manager monika is not associated with them either. she handles the day to day running of ptrinfo as a volunteer...This site and all costs and prizes come out of my own pocket. Since i took ownership the site has NEVER had a single month where it paid for itself in any way. but when i purchased the site i was aware of that fact and money was not the reason for purchase it was the purpose that it stands for that was the reason for us buying the site.
also i have been told people in your site are saying the fact that my sites are listed is a concern. however this is not so... my sites will NEVER accept the prize money even if they did win which i doubt will happen as i dont push members to vote ect in fact i keep my ptrs and ptrinfo completely seperate and have not meantioned ptrinfo to members in ages LOL
if one of mine won a prize it would be given to the site in 2nd place.
also THIS site is ran on automated script the votes reviews exit visits and certifications are all handled by the scripts. the only editing that is done is to ad new dates each month so that it will show the winners list for new months as they come along. i have no way of editing the certifications at all. would be nice thou to be able to remove certs for dead sites and such. but it cant be done or at least not by me. i am no good at mysql programing LOL
Best regards,
PTRInfo Administrator
Take note of what she said in her very FIRST paragraph:
"....all boycotted sites are the same" (meaning any site she sees boycotted is scam)
Biased to the hilt in favor of GPTB!
And, the continued denial of association with GPTB:
"we are in no way associated with gptboycott."
"my ptrinfo manager monika is not associated with them either."
"we have never even spoken to the owner/s of that site."
How can one SAY the DON'T associate with a site when they deliberately USE RE DIRECTS
(which to me is a dishonesty in itself to have people think they are being linked to
one thing but, redirected to another site through that link) that goes to the site with
which they claim not be associated with?
IF PTR Info would hold true to their "purpose" they would NOT use redirect links! They
would use DIRECT links, instead. Like, let the "VISIT WEBSITE" TAKE the viewer TO the
WEBSITE in review - NOT some stupid forum that explains their biased reasons for
boycotting it!
I'd even go so far as to say add a DIRECT link to gptboycott on the same page - giving the viewer the OPTION to read about BOTH.
THIS "new" owner of PTR Info is either too stupid to see what's going on and, too blind trusting a corrupted site, or she's in cahoots WITH GPTB (being a silent partner) and "vowing" to keep that association secret.
Now, back on the subject of GPTB and the subject of "Are Forums being truthful...."
I continue with NO, and show to what extent SOME of them go to (GPTB) in order to get traffic to their sites and to continue a vendetta against those sites that are succeeding in their goal to "Fight for Justice" in the realm of GPT!
There's a whole lot more going on with GPTB than what we see on the surface. It boils down to money, power and control over the GPT Industry! Anyone who does NOT support them or does not cower to letting GPTB tell them how to run their sites their "just cause" for doing what they do.
In order to stop or curtail what they do, we must continue to spread the word and keep
GPT sites from falling into the corrupted hands of those Forums that USE whatever means they can to obtain power and control over them!
It is OBVIOUS that PTR Info has now become another tool to be used by GPTB as a means to continue their corruption to control and manipulate the GPT Industry for their own gain.
At this point I would advise anyone NOT to submit a favorite GPT site for review to PTR Info. All that will do is give GPTB another avenue to reach out to more sites for their own selfish gain of money, power, and control.
by Donna (PM , CC ) on Monday March 30, 2009 @ 5:27 PM
I don't know if the site for ptr is anything you can count on for good information. I know that the hassel BGPmail is wrong. I have been a member there a long time and had many payouts, most of the time without asking. They have always treated me with respect and The WM is one of the best i know on any sites. And i noticed they a have few other sites listed that i am a member of and have always got paid from them. The one i think needs be put out of business is running paid to boycott or at least make sure all the facts are out there and right. leave BGP along they are one of the best. Thank You
by milliem2 (PM , CC ) on Monday March 30, 2009 @ 10:40 PM
Something else I found wrong with PTR Info, after they took the redirect from the "VISIT WEBSITE." And I think it's VERY importent!
NOW, when you click on "VISIT WEBSITE" of boycotted programs you get redirected to a bogus link that makes it look like the site cannot be found, and leads one to believe it does not exist anymore.
On the left hand of the PTR Info page under "Directory" you can check out the PTR sites that have been submitted for review. Once you click on that it takes you to a page with a line of Alphabet letters. If you click on "B" for example you will find BGPayMail in that list.
When you click on a program it takes you to the "review" page of that site.
IF the site was NOT boycotted, the "VISIT WEBSITE" link takes you DIRECTLY to the site in question.
HOWEVER, IF the site has been boycotted, the link now REDIRECTS to a BOGUS link with a page that says the site CAN NOT be found. Which, I repeat, makes one believe the site no longer exists.
WHAT it LEADS people to believe is that ANY site that has been boycotted no longer exists - which also leads one to think that GPTBoycott is SO POWERFUL that sites that get boycotted no longer exist.
You can't TELL me that the owner of PTR Info doesn't have anything to do with GPTB. Not after the discovery of what I found above. She can SIT there and SAY she doesn't READ GPTB, but, she CANNOT say she's not in cahoots with them.
We can't PROVE PTR Info is owned by the owner of GPTB, but, who's to say "they" didn't talk some bimbo into purchasing it so they can control it?
What I can't understand is why the owner(s) of GPTB are doing this, or what they are getting out of it. Do they think people are so blind that people can't see what they do?
All I know is the more we figure out the more we must let people KNOW what they do.
The reasons are as follows:
1. The number of complaints needed are not based on a programs member base. The arbitrary number of 10 complaints is all it takes for a program to find themselves placed on the boycott list.
2. The complaint form has no way to verify if the one complaining is in fact a member of said program. They leave the user name of the program optional. Therefore any body member or not can go file a grievance.
3. Complaints are not verified. Without user name of a complainant there is no way to approach a program being complained about to find out if the complaint is warranted or not.
4. Currently out of nearly 40 boycotted programs less than 20% were boycotted for specifically non payment to members.
The reasons allowed to boycott any program have been allowed to be subjective vs objective.
If a program owner is not on the well liked list, then all hands are down and it is ok to complain that the personality of a program owner is grounds for boycott.
I am certain others are able to add to this list. Please feel free to share your experiences.
Note: I am not saying it is not a good idea to have forums to share information but if the information shared is not done on an objective level it looses creditability and reverts to petty childish school age antics.
I think one of the things to do in the forums when one sees what people are saying about any particular program is to look at the "tone" of the statement.
Like you said, there's a difference between objective and subjective.
Is there bias in the post?
Does the statement appear as a personal vendetta?
Does the post distract from the topic or redirect by making comments about a person who posted rather than the subject at hand?
Also know that Administration and Modorators are key to maintaining their rules of the forum and do a daily review of posts to ensure that the rules are not being violated.
So, after reading the rules of the forums, navigate the forum site to see if there is proper administration to the rules. Discussions DO get out of hand, but, if you see no posts by Admin or Morerators stepping in and posting warnings, there's a good chance that Administrators and Moderators are not doing their jobs.
With that in mind, and the "set up" as Jason explained of one in particular, you can pretty much judge for yourself whether or not to believe the reasons behind the boycotting.
I will warn you ahead of time that those kind of forums that allow such border-line defamation posts DO have groups that will attack anyone who questions their logic or twisting what others say. So, if you post a pro against a con on a program they are trying to boycott, be prepared to be personally attacked or reported to whatever authority they think could harm you. Those people are vicious and vindictive.
What I find fascinating with that particular forum is, it was started by a law student what, 7 yrs ago and he’s still not a lawyer, the part owner of the forum is an ex cop, so we’re told, is there more money in a gossip forum? Now the moderators, one is an ex judge so we’re told again, now I ask you what would a judge be doing at a gossip forum and the other and ex IRS employee, so we’re told, as far as we know he could have been the cleaner as he seems to like getting PO’s accounts cleaned out at Paypal. Now doesn’t that make a nice gang, awwwww. Or is that all made up to intimidate new members joining the PTR Industry or maybe to give them the credibility that they seem to crave for and sadly lack.
I tend to think like you do, join the sites you think is right for you, work out your differences with the PO if that’s not possible then definitely put it down as a bad experience, walk away and remember the lesson JMO.
As for the rules at gptb there are none, sure its all written but if you have the tiniest difference of opinion the rules change unless you are part of the team.
Nothing and no one is perfect.
I am glad to see more and more people coming forward and helping to get the word out about the so called PTR Police/crusaders as you called them.
Keep up the good work.
I agree that forums can be useful if used properly.
Some forums seem to think they are in charge of the ptr world, yet, they are just a forum run by clickers. If they don't like something about a program, they want no one else to be in that program so the program possibly will go under.
I think it's a shame that some program owners really believe without even knowing the program that just because a few people don't like it, they won't allow it on their sites.
Other forums can discuss sites, give their likes or dislikes, but they let people make up their own minds. I like those types of forums.
In some ways, what one particular forum does by their 'boycotting' sites is hurting other sites. I leave the sites that 'boycott' a site just because of what i guess is 10 people not liking the program.
And i know others leave sites for this reason too.
I'm not talking about a site that doesn't pay or cheats the clickers.
I think forums could be a useful tool. Generally, I think Forums run by a PTR program themselves tend to be more useful and fun than those forums that are discussing this program and that program where some post hateful, spiteful posts ridiculing someones opinion.
What I hate the most about some forums are how a select few are allowed to post belittling derogatory remarks about those who do not view the program in question the same as them.
I have noticed that a handful of people that tend to cross reference two other forums post in such a manner that leads me to believe they wish to control all PTR programs in such a manner that only they would be the ones making any money.
Really, have they not noticed in real life that having only one source of say phone services leads to price gouging and without competition the users of the service have no resources to better options. But then again I suppose that is the point. Control PTR and then they can reap the rewards from their search links and PTP links being the sole links out there to earn from.
Searches is another entire blog discussion lol.
Anyhow, users beware, make note of the most prominent posters in any forum. Notice the small group of posters patting each other on the back while they attempt to discredit and degrade those with opposing views. Read older threads to see the soap opera story unfold leading you to the main characters attempting to sway others into thinking that they alone know what is best for all members in any given program and that they alone have the power to keep a program open or closed.
Some programs have been closed due to the rash of tattle tailing mentality of others. Many members have lost earnings from such shenanigans, all because the vendetta seeking crew disliked how a webmaster spoke to them.
Common sense dictates. Really, we are all adults who have the ability to be able to pick and chose which sites we want to join. Hopefully, we learn along the way how not to join sites that will only take our time and energy and never paying us.
Boycotting, is it really necessary? Another subject closely tied would be: Are all those "Approved Lists" of sites allowed to be advertised on specific sites necessary? Really, after a while there will be no where to advertise if all sites do not make the approved list.
lol so much to say but I will call it a night and say thank you again to all those taking part. And imagine we don't even have to have the same opinion. We are here to share our experiences so others may hopefully not make the same mistakes we have or to at least get a heads up on how not to be caught hook line and sinker by those who are not as truthful as they would like to appear.
Look at your comment, merlin. Irregardless of who we are and of which program the majority of posters belong, here you are, claiming that your comments would be deleted because of it.
The facts are that the forums we are talking about uses subjectivity, rather than objectivity to boycott. And, believe their rules,are unfair. Is it fair that only 10 complaints be needed to do so when many programs have thousands of members? Is it fair to allow impromtu basis for such? And, have no means to verify a complaint from an anonymous complaintant?
I could go on to include mud-sling / bashing posters who disagree with what this "group" does. Even gloating over the fact that a site owner has been "reported." How objective is that in discussing a program?
Are we not adults who can agree or agree to disagree without personal accusations or twisting what is written by a poster who happens to disagree with the group on an issue?
Look at your post, merlin, and see it for what it is. This subject is about forums - not who the majority of posters are here or what program in which they are members.
If you can speak objectively, I'm sure no one would discredit or delete your post. You have as much right to bring out the good points of forums that discuss GPT as well as we have the right to discuss what we think is wrong with them.
Pros and cons - no need to get personal and assume you will be treated unfairly.
Your way of warning people about bad sites just doesn't work, gptb does not have any credibility or authority to boycott sites. And again you ASSUME we get paid for backing a good site named BGPM and good PO named Bill, we, too do so because we know the site is a good site and not for payment, is that so hard to believe and yet you expect us to believe that what you are doing what you do is for a good cause, not likely not after the vendettas you showed in the BG thread & other threads.
But anyway this is about forums and most others do not put themselves above all other forums or POs by boycotting sites and dragging them through the mud, so people need to be made aware of the tactics of gptb.
However those complaints are not removed and are used to try and damage good sites like BGPM. Yes I stand up in defense of BGPM of which I am a member. I do this because I am tired of others making up lies to discredit this and ANY honest and paying site.
The blog was started by Jason to discuss forums and I'm sure if there was something odd or unjust with other forums it would have been mentioned by now but early days it may come.
And again if someone has something to say about gptb that YOU do not agree with it is classed as a lie. You've just proven another point about members of gptb that a rational and reasonable discussion is not possible with MOST members of gptb without namecalling & belittling. Have a good night,calm down, don't waste your energy now.
And, aren't they the ones who are supposed to ensure that the rules of etiquette (gptb DOES have them) are abided?
Could that not be part of the problem with why those forums ARE the way they are?
How can a moderator be objective and unbiassed when they threaten to report people to IRS, PayPal, and other authorities, or gloat with little green smiles when they see that people were reported and banned or whatever?
What kind of credibility does THAT give to a forum that is supposed to be for the purpose of stamping out scam?
PO's of forums that go MIA when things heat up, and moderators that either claim "lives of their own" or are so narrow minded that they can't be objective to both sides of an issue are, IMO, some of the MAIN reasons to stay away from them. How can any GOOD come out of that?
I do not mind opinions even if they differ from my own.
If you wish to share why you feel that the forum you are referring to is a good forum, then please do so. If you wish to say why you think 10 unverified complaints for any program is grounds for a justifiable boycott and/or why subjective issues are used to place some programs on the list such as program owners personality...then please feel free to share why you feel it is ok to do those things.
However, coming in expecting to have your comments deleted shows you come in on the defensive and are ready to jump at those who have different views/outlooks than your own regarding forums.
Please do share your opinions as stated above, but please do not come here to post and start accusing others of twisting things and or belonging to one program.
I really do not understand how someones opinion makes them twisting the truth as you put it.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions and should be accepted for what they are.
I want people to share experiences with forums related to PTR. So Merlin feel welcome to share your opinions on your experiences with forums, nothing more, nothing less. Thank you
Many, like myself, who spoke good things about a program they were discussing to boycott, have been bashed, demeaned, and had words twisted.
No one likes to be treated like that, nor is it good to have the topic of discussion derailed by personal attacks on character.
Sad to say, though, IMO, I think the owners of forums allow such for drawing attraction to their sites. After all, is not sensationalism used much to attract attention on TV - per se, as in the well known Jerry Springer, a talk show host who used such to profit in the US?
It's entertainment that draws high ratings, and it is high ratings that draws advertisers.
So, what better to do than to use false pretence (creating vague rules and "supposedly," the power to boycott on the basis of rumor or opinions rather than facts) and allowing the bashing in posts to earn money from advertising?
I have no problem with entertaining to earn money from advertising. But, then, I DO think it should be noted as such, and, do away with their claim to their "purpose." It's wrong to hurt people or GPT programs in the process. That's why I think something must be done about it. Especially those that deal with boycotting or using black listing.
So, I think the best way to handle this is to keep doing things like Jason is doing here. And, hope that, eventually, these forums either revamp their vague rules and stop allowing the personal attack posts, or that they just disappear before they damage the reputation of the GPT Industry any further.
You know, even IF gain from advertising IS a main purpose, I think using objectivity and creating better rules would be more effective on the industry than the methods they are using now.
Of course that would involve much dedication and time to verify complaints, editing out posts that are disrespectful, and such, but, in the long run, isn't the road to long-term profits in business based on honesty, integrity, respect, hard work and dedication to the "purpose" of the business?
Products or services will not sell well if the company doesn't back such with the quality of the product or service they provide.
There is no quality in bashing, personal insults and, so forth. There is no quality in using haphazzard rules and impromtu whims that need no verification to boycott All that does is cause eventual loss of public interest in the business.
So, while sensationalism may work for awhile, I think it is like cutting off one's nose to spite their face. People will be attracted, but, turn away in disgust.
'I ADMITTED TO NOTHING,I SAID ROB MAY BE MAKING MONEY. I HAVEN'T THE FOGGIEST IDEA IF HE MAKES MONEY OR NOT.'
yet you posted at gptB talking to me:
merlin;
'I am also sure that Rob would probably want to thank you for the additional pages views you have created as for some reason all of a sudden the page views/people views has increased several hundred in the last few hours'
And didn't you also made this statement here:
merlin:
' I am slowly coming to the conclusion that maybe the bgpaymail people,might not be too far wrong in their conclusion that this forum has developed into a traffic forum for google adsense and nothing else matters'
Looks to me that you may know exactly what is going down there.
and then this here:
merlin
'Come on and get serious...you only have to read your own comments toward me on your own forum,the AC article and what you did on Gptboycott to know your attempting to blow smoke where the sun don't shine.'
Was it not YOU that I caught in lying? And did YOU not admitted so yourself by posting this at YOUR Forum:
merlin:
'Ok,this comes as a hard thing for me to admit,as it was pointed out to me by a couple of people I consider as great friends in this internet world that I actually did make those statements.'
'Seems' to me that you sure doing plenty of lying and changing your mind when it comes to gptB.
You are also one of those who report others to PP and the IRS and who knows where else, that would make you Rob's #1 snitch and Informer
I apologize to Jason for this post, but I'm really sick and tired of this double standards and lies that I see at gptB and to know the smoke they attempt to blow where the sun don't shines.
One thing I do not understand, which of those attempting to discredit Bgpaymail is still a member? For disliking a program so badly why belong? Couldn't be somebody wants their cake and eat it too, nah they don't want paid do they, they just want to find dirt anything that they can twist into something horrendous.
Another thing, why reopen an old thread about Bgpaymail? Oh that's right, the other thread was about Amy and her AC article that was linked on "Bills" program. Of course we couldn't link Bgpaymail to that kind of vague title could we?
For all the wool they are attempting to pull over peoples eyes, they are blinding themselves to the truth. The simple truth is they are obsessed with one PTR program that they deemed boycott material.
The issue can be turned 29 ways into Sunday but the truth is, the handful of members always popping in to add their 2 cents to any thread involving Bgpaymail in an attempt to discredit those who have put their feet down saying enough is enough.
Sure there are those who keep track of what Boycott does. And maybe that makes them a bit obsessed, but in this case I don't think so. In this case the more the little children at boycott keep talking the more ammunition they give to those wishing to point out how the boycott forum is there for themselves.
I keep watching and the more they write the more they discredit themselves.
The players in this saga are nothing more than those who have a need to feel better than others and a need to feel like they belong to the "IN" crowd. Sad really, to think that adults have a need to rationalize their comments and behaviors to justify their actions.
Maybe those in the know, would care to share the answers to those asked in the forum.
Boycott was started supposedly to warn others of non paying sites. Yet when it came to Bgpaymail a webmasters personality was grounds for boycott. Why is that? I remember defunct programs whose owners did not always answer politely if at all. They paid those they wanted to pay and no one else, yet they never even made it to the boycott lists.
How can 10 complaints from any program be enough to warrant a boycott?
10 complaints on some sites is less than one tenth of that programs member base.
The list could go on. Why are all those programs with ridiculous offers of hundred dollar emails not on the boycott list?
In fact the page views are more important to the owner of the site. He has chosen specific people to operate his site knowing that the soap opera rantings brings views.
In a court of law a judge would have laughed you alls evidence out of the court room.
First off , I think a blog like this can be very helpful and constructive , if we all can try to remain friendly..
When I started in the business quite some time ago , I felt forums could be and should be quite helpful..
You got to hear from others about programs , you could do research , on sites and find out what others were saying and could make a discussion on whether or not a program would be a good one to join or not.. Not to say , the opinions were right or not , still helpful if you took the time to read..
Than after awhile , of being around for awhile , you started noticing some disturbing facts.. You started seeing the sames names over and over again , proclaiming this and that in support of their favorite sites ,drawing more and more unknowing people to trust and join under them in some horrible sites.
If however you disagreed with them , you were bashed over and over. Than it just became one big fighting match . I not even talking about the Boycott forum.. Than came the Boycott forum.. I was delighted.. I was like yes , somewhere to go to voice our complaints. And it started out great. But than , it as well as other forums became much of the same. But worse in my opinion..
Silly me , thought , that this forum would be different. But its wasn't..
I have came to one conclusion. Pretty much most forums are the same. Cause of one reason. Ran by people. Everyone has an opinion and figure instead of listening , we can all yell over the other people. Everyone else is wrong ,and we (I) are right..
I think forums , should be for information and discussion. Not somewhere you hate to go because of all the fighting and bickering.. To say I am perfect , would be a lie. I can't say , I have not gotten involved in these discussions. Cause I have. But I have found that , its to no avail.. So now I say my peace and go on.
Am I upset , how things have ended up yes. Am I disappointed at some forums , more than 1 , have turned out yes. But my life goes on. I am not going to let it take me over like I once did. And I suggest others need to learn to do the same.. It will be healthier for all that are involved..
Thank you Jason , for starting a blog like this.. And yes , I think there are things that can be improved on at the gptB forum but a many others as well..
Love
Tammy
As naive as I was when I was a novice in the GPT Industry, I trusted the Boycott to guide me into being successful at working with GPT. I didn't pay so much mind at the fairness of needing only 10 complaints or their insinuous methods of boycotting.
What I DID pay heed to was that list of boycotted sites and, of course, what they were saying in forums about programs I was thinking of joining.
And, for awhile, there was not nearly the mudslinging that there is today, what with that group they have controlling the forums while there is lack in administration and moderation.
And, yes, like Tammy, I got more and more discouraged by what I saw, and simply stopped going there. Who needs such childish bickering? Even at that, I would occassionally pop into the boycott site, hoping to see that some administrator or moderator had stepped in and took back control.
I am a member of BGPayMail, so, when it was brought to my attention that it was being discussed at the boycott I couldn't believe it.
We all knew of the problems Bill was having (he was reported to PayPal and the site was hacked), but, we KNEW and trusted Bill (a webmaster who would surprise us with payments before we even requested them) to the point of knowing that once the problems were resolved, business would return as usual.
But, alas, a newer member, perhaps not yet at the stage of trusting, inquired about BGPayMail at the Boycott forums.
That's all it took to open a can of worms.
I was among those who dared to defend BGPayMail and I did so with all my heart, wearing myself thin, protesting the mudslinging, arguing issues, and, yes, even getting personal, myself. What really hurt was when a long absent moderator came in with a biassed attitude.
The thread was closed, opened, and then closed again. And, eventually, BGPayMail was put on the Watch list and, then boycotted.
The "discussion" was then carried on to the section of the forum for "Discuss Boycotted Programs."
Needless to say, after over 2,000 posts, the subject of BGPayMail was no longer of interest to the mudslingers.
But, much was learned about the boycott site by us members in the process of that battle, and we chose to fight the injustice and unfairness of their boycotting methods - not only because our favorite program had been boycotted, but, because we feel the NEED to save the GPT Industry from destruction by that vicious boycotting site. (There's a lot more going on than mudslinging and pretence of boycotting to "help" the Industry.)
All in all, BGPayMail has survived the boycott, as so many other GPT programs have. More and more webmasters AND members of GPT are realizing the farce that Boycott really is - and they are standing up against them by refusing to let Boycott tell them how to run their sites or subject themselves to them from fear of being boycotted.
The battle for BGPayMail may have been lost (boycotted), but, the war has only begun. More and more are questioning the procedures and the ethics of the Boycott site, the true purpose of it's owner, and the group that controls their forums.
So, once again, Jason, I DO thank you for bringing out the concerns that truly need to be addressed about forums.
Program forums generally have both positive and negative feedback from members. I think those forums are best for information.
It appears there are a small group of people intent on ruling the roost of PTR programs and are making attempts to gain control which in the end is beneficial to only those in the group.
For instance, at GPF a program owner is trying to take the banning lists of programs with PTP another step further. The premise is that the PTP pages contain pornography. Depending on where one is from the definition of pornography varies.
These yes men were the ones who started the initial banning lists. I will not get into this at this time but want to point out how a few people at these independent forums attempt to control all PTR programs implying it is for the better of the member. One big justification they use is that on top of pornography these pages are full of bugs to hurt your computer.
While nice in theory it has one major flaw. People who do not do PTR who turn on the internet are still subject to the same problems.
Then you have boycott who provides the list of programs boycotted or needing to boycott and combining the two forums together finding the same players shows the relationship and possible intent for their own possible gain.
More thoughts to come.
As you say some want to be Gods of the PTR Industry and not only by trying to tell POs how to run their site but they resort to intimidation and bullying, Merlin2307 a moderator and informant for PP & the IRS & Dazhiredgun the co-owner who is supposedly a policeman have stolen a private receipt from my imagecave account albeit a public album and posted it at their vile forum together with my full name showing, which is against their own rules so it does prove that they think they are the rulers of PTR. And for a policeman to steal property from a public place I wonder what the supermoderator who is supposedly an ex-Judge thinks of their action specially that of a policeman so my joke about them wasn't too far wrong a real mafia set up. A forum owned by a wannabe lawyer (been studying for nearly 8 years apparently) & a cop, moderated by an informant of Paypal & the IRS and an ex Judge and then you have the lynch mob, although they are few by they are definitely a lynch mob.
All I can say is they have showed all that they have no decency, credibility and definitely no Legal License or rights to be doing what they are. My name has been out there since the 23rd so it doesn't really matter now but it's the principle, I thought I'd let all know how they work and I may even put their name here depends on how low I decide to stoop but then would it really be stooping or fighting for what I believe in.
(Name Removed) No I will not remove the post,simply because as the saying goes "something smells rotten in Denmark" and the rotten smell is those two receipts,the blocking out of the letterhead,the insulting and degrading remarks you made about Wil. The rest of you at bgforum,go ahead keep it up with your insults. You will accomplish nothing,except showing how childlike your acting. As to your new questions on the operations here......you stand a fat chance in you know what of getting anyone to answer. As always....JMO....Merlin
Hehehehe it seems he doesn't know what a letter head is.
and this one
To (Name Removed): I can be just as childlike as you are and type your name in here and on blogs and in emails,if I want. It is not a power trip,I don't do power trips,never have in 57 years of life on this planet earth and don't intend on doing it now or ever. Here's childlike attitude for every time my name is typed in bgpaymail forum or email I will type yours or moehalexzo's in here double what you "ladies and gents" do over there. How's that for tit for tat (Name Removed)? As always....JMO....Merlin
this one is a doozie
You,and the
others need to apologize for your vile attacks upon Freecashspace,BD,me
and most of all ROB AND THE OTHER MEMBERS,AND PUT YOUR
HATRED,CUZ BGPAYMAIL GOT BOYCOTTED TO BETTER USE. I was and
still am mentally a soldier,and I can carry this war YOU ALL started till
they pry this keyboard from my cold dead hands as the saying goes.
The choice is up to you the members of Bgpaymail.
and this from the co-owner cop who stolen from my album, wonder if he steals from public places.
Not only did I save the above image, I saved the entire page;
There you have it, a sample of how the Gods of the PTR Industry act.
Judge for yourselves.
Oh BTW, I have been getting a lot of spam during the past week, I just wonder where they're coming from!!
I guess they just dont get it. Its about closing it and leaving it closed since bgpaymail was boycotted. This aint a schoolyard.
Man oh man, why not be the man an let it closed regardless of what bgpaymail does.
Oh well, you all wont be satisfied ever no matter what. Ya been asked questions about your boycott rules amongst other questions and you all choose to ignore them and play games. Problem is yall act like a gang and where im from gangs usually get what they give an then some.
Time will tell but looks to me like boycotts gonna open the thread back up. Havent any yall heard ya play with fire your gonna get burnt?
8 states and 21 addresses. hmm Id say dont through stones when ya live in a glass house.
Im beginning to believe that people who are interested in PTR should check out each programs own forum before wondering into generalized forums where they seem to be full of negativity.
Just beware dont believe everything read be it good or bad about a program. It will take time and your own personal experience to start relying on your own instinct.
I agree if you are in PTR and have a problem work it out with your WM, there are bad ones out there but most are good and are willing to work things out, if you can't then walk away, warn your friends if need be but do not go to that forum if you value your privacy.
I just read there a praise by one of the regulars, it is an attempt to sway people into believing the owner is interested and keeping abreast of the issues.
There are some ways that we can all keep ourselves a bit safer when joining programs. One would be check out the advertising prices. If they are selling ads for less than they actually cost, you know that you as a single solitary clicker have not much chance of being paid.
Beware of those who preach about how a program should run and those who pretend they are concerned with iframes, etc. as they have been found to post in some less visible forums about how to take advantage of the programs that are new and here to scam you. They join forces and click themselves to payout and share the kitty.
If you go visit a program and get that gut feeling about it, listen to it. It means something is amiss despite those saying its the best program since sliced bread.
Above all else ptr is actually meant to be a way of finding good deals on things we wish to buy. PTR should not be taken as a way to make a living, very few are able to do that. In fact, there is one forum set up to give programs some seal of approval as paying sites, bottom line there, the owner belongs to sites being advertised as good, has huge downlines and earns off the single solitary clickers work.
Stay tuned, more to come.
As far as those beenpaid seal of approval, I have my own suspicions about those, I have been with 2 sites that have disappeared without paying members and yet not a word said about those gptb, why would that be?
I am at another site who late last year got their seal of approval but since then the value of mails have gone downnnnnnnnnnnnnnn and less mail, I can barely make the $1 payout now where before the mail were mostly for 1/4cent now they are .00000? so much for advertising and getting myself a downline, used to be good but slowly going downhill and I really don't see it lasting the year. So that will be 3 sites with that famous SEAL that will disappear without so much as a boooo, why???? because the forum that awards those seals are under the same umbrella as gptb. So I would steer clear of sites with those seals. JMO
As far as those sites on the been paid list, yes, many disappeared and nothing is mentioned, and most of those sites do have a very small membership count also and yeah, it takes forever to reach payout if at all clicking those 0.000? links, so what are those seals really good for?
'PTRinfo', 'Been Paid' and 'gptB' sure seem to be working very closely together, makes you really wonder. When a site is boycotted, at the same time 'been paid' and 'PTRinfo' know about it instantly and act upon, like PTRinfo will put the 'boycotted' sign on that site (if it is listed there) that may has been in the #1 spot,had positive votes , but yet they decide, NOT the members who vote, but the admin of PTRinfo.Kind of defeates the purpose of members who like the site to vote and report payouts.
The only independent forums I know of are GPTBoycott and GPForum, and, from what I see there is so much bias, mudslinging,lying and personal attacks that you have to weed through it all just to find even snippits of sincerety and truth.
Rarely do the topics at hand stay on the subject. And, there seems to be a group who thinks they are a hierarchy who can rule over all and defame anyone who dares to disagree with their opinions. Plainly, they are bullies and will use incite, name calling, and even falsely report those who disagree with them to authorities to damage them further. They will lie and twist your own words to their benefit.
Without unbiased moderators who know the meaning of the position, any forum can become a mudsling pit controlled by trolls.
It's all there, plain to see - the same group in both forums and tied into "Been Paid" and "PTRinfo."
All in all, I'm more apt to see the truth in PTR site forums (that are NOT independent from a site), where the site owner can keep up with it to keep it clean, or has a good moderator who knows the meaning of moderating.
So, another way to see if a program suits you is to check out their forum, if they have one. Look at the "tones" of the posts. You'll be able to tell how well it is moderated. No, no one has to agree on every issue, but, if you see tones of "netiquette," and interaction from the owner and / or moderator, it's also a good chance the site owner is honest and has integrity.
So, IMO, "independent" forums (like GPTBoycott and GPF) that deem themselves the authority to boycott or blacklist are NOT truthful. And, no, they are not at all HELPFUL. GPTBoycott rules and their complaint system leave too much leeway for false complaints and no way to verify them in a fair manner that can justify a boycott.
There is more and more circumstantial evidence making me believe that there are specific ties between 2 forums which is for the benefit of those forum owners, nothing more, nothing less.
Forums can be a good source of information but it all depends on who is in that forum posting. When a small group of people jump in trying to persuade others to jump on their wagon, about certain sites especially when it comes to boycotting, I feel those people turn those forums into witch hunts.
Personally I feel only members of programs being looked at should be allowed to place a complaint about said site AND they should have to give their user name of said site so that the complaint can be discussed with the programs owner to find out if it was an oversite, or if the member is a cheater or it is just a plain bogus complaint due to personality conflicts.
Any person filing a complaint who refuses to give their username should have that complaint thrown out as it can not be verified.
The 10 complaints needs to be increased in proportion to a sites member base.
And, the word boycott should be removed and they should have a list of sites that they feel are join at your own risk based on the following verified complaints.
Also, if moderators can not moderate and be unbiased, those moderators should be removed from their position as they tend to sway others as an authority figure by posting their opinions.
I think as far as the boycott forum goes, they have proved without a doubt that they are incapable of having a fair process in boycotting sites and they have no intention of changing the current format.
What I found odd is the owner of the site refused to show up to answer questions posed to him by others, yet showed up to thank 4 people for posting a kiss-butt thread about how great the place is. Go figure.
Anyhow, I think to those unsure about a program they are thinking about joining, if they have a forum go to it. If you have a gut feeling listen to it.
Forums are only as good as those who frequent them, and only as informative based on the content posted. If you see the same handful of people degrading, belittling, etc., ignore it and do what you feel best when it comes to joining any program.
PTRInfo is a site where members get to vote for their sites, which reminds me before the site was sold members used to be able to sign their comments with either their username or whatever but since being sold you cannot put in a username to your comments which is similar to gptboycott.
I have put in two comments recently for BG and they were not accepted but the negative ones seems to be accepted so I'll let you all think about that.
However
On march 2nd I posted the following:
Thank you Jason for the informative and on target article.
I am glad to see more and more people coming forward and helping to get the word out about the so called PTR Police/crusaders as you called them.
Keep up the good work.
If this is what you are referring to then please let me post this for all.
I was not mentioning Linksgals (Michelle Doty) site (ptr-police.com) in any way. I was referring to the way that GPTB class themselves as policing the ptr industry and crusade against sites they don't like.
Sorry for any confusion.
Hope this helps clear up any problems.
First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to thank Jason for starting this very informative blog and also everyone who has contributed. I have often felt alone with my views about this subject and this has shown me otherwise, for which I am most grateful.
I too have a program that is on the so-called boycott list and despite tireless efforts by both myself and my fiancée to prove that it should not be there, our program remains one of the most vehemently targeted.
Like BGPayMail, we run paying Programs (8 of them) and provide, in my view, great support. Yes, we have disgruntled Members who have had lost their accounts for either cheating or breaking ToS, but if we don't obey our own Terms, how can we expect our Members to. Some of the comments on 'that' forum, leading to the boycott of our Program state that their support questions were ignored. This is a complete fabrication as all support emails were always answered. We later discovered that some replies were not getting back to their originators, especially those using Yahoo email addresses, but that is a different story as any web host will know. With this being an issue, we now use a support ticket system and replies are always shown, even if the Member does not get the notification email - they can view the ticket at anytime.
The main reason for us appearing on the list were for supposedly being a 'runner' PO. Would a 'runner' PO still be here, 5 years later, operating eight, paying PTR Programs? Yes, I was offline for a few months due to family and other personal issues in the 'Real World', but I was able to leave the program that I was 'responsible' for in trustworthy hands, with a promise that it would be looked after and data would be kept safe. I was in touch with a certain person, albeit over my mobile (cell) phone, but due to costs involved (I was in UK, they in the States), regular contact was difficult. It has since come to light that the person concerned didn't pass on the fact that I was in contact and led everyone to believe that I had completely disappeared. I was unable to get onto the 'net during that time and when I eventually managed to get back, everything was gone, including the host with the site and data. However, the program I was 'responsible' for was NOT and IS NOT my Program. Yes, we made announcements that I was to take over and that was always my intention - to reduce the site debt and make the program viable. But, as it was pointed out by many people (including those who are NOW saying that I DID own the Program), I could not possibly own the Program as it was being run by an Incorporated Company and that there were legal reasons why I could not. I found this to be true and had negotiations with the owner which ended in her agreeing to forward the relevant sign-over documentation to me, with a view to me fully taking over. This never happened! Not apportioning any blame, but is it my fault that the most important aspect of the take-over was not initiated by the previous/current owner?
What IS my fault, was getting into something that would, with hindsight, cause me a lot of pain. I don't regret trying to help and if all had worked out, the program concerned would probably still be here and all of it's Members paid. I didn't promise any quick fixes, but I was (and still am) confident that it could have worked. There was a huge site debt, but I'm sure that could have been recovered over time. Not blaming the Members (I was one myself and it owed me around $200), but it was abundantly clear that ads were being undersold and would never cover the running costs and payouts promised. Members clicked in good faith and I guess carried on in the vain hope that all would turn out for the best. People have got to remember that the site owner actually closed the site and declared bankruptcy BEFORE I got involved. My intentions were honourable even if, at best, unrealistic. In my view and in the eyes of the law, as no legal exchange or transfer of the site to me ever took place, the status of that site reverted to how the original/current owner left it - CLOSED. How can I be a 'runner' PO when a) The site was not mine & b) How can anyone run with 'debt' - there is no money in debt, what benefit would I get from that? I (and my fiancée) am paying an extremely high price, for a mistake that I made, with the very best intentions, but due to circumstances beyond my control, failed. I do feel, at best, very bad about it and if there was anything I could have done to rectify the situation, I certainly would have. In hindsight, I should have never got involved, but I couldn't predict what was going to happen in my personal life shortly after this started, nor that the owner would not follow through with the transfer.
There are many more details and lots of proof that I could show, but this blog is not about me - I just thought it relevant to post some background information. Please, Jason, by all means edit this if you feel that this information should not be here - I will fully understand.
We have submitted huge amounts of personal information to GPTB in our defence, but alas this has been ignored. Most of it proves that some of the comments made by the 10 'Complainers' are fabricating their stories. The majority, if not all of these people, have never even been a member of our boycotted Program. As always, it is a group of people that wish to cause trouble and then there are those that just 'jump on the bandwagon' to try and get to be popular in that forum. One in particular was a Member and had good support and kept praising us for the great site and for being helpful to them. Then within the time it takes to blink, he turns tables and agrees with everything they say - since then he has been instrumental in the banning of other Programs on that forum. He even had the nerve to come to us afterwards, join all of our programs behind 'their' backs and become one our most supportive Members. Was he a 'plant' or mole? Probably, but we have nothing to hide.
We have tried in vain to get the Program removed. Originally, the 'List' was for Programs that didn't pay. When we challenged this, the rules magically changed. So we are on the list for being associated with another Program which has nothing to do with us. GPTB and it's core 'contributors' are hypocritical and everything else that is reported in this blog. They posted personal information and false accusations, some of which we did manage to get removed, but there are still many more. We have even tried to approach their host and have submitted legitimate complaints, only to get the same reply over and over "I will cooperate with any legal authority that you may contact with your complaints", but their Terms state: "*********Hosting will cooperate with legal authorities and/or injured third parties" - are we not the Injured Third Party?? I appears that even the host is in cahoots with them. GPTB break many of the host's own Terms as well as the host themselves.
Someone commented earlier in this blog that GPTB was a UK based forum. Whilst this may be true, they are actually hosted in the UNITED STATES - that may have some relevance.
There have also been some comments here with regard to Banned Lists. Whilst we DO have a banned list of sorts, it contains sites or Programs that we will not advertise on any of our Programs. This mainly contains site that have Viruses and other bad links and we will not willingly subject our Members to potentially dangerous downloads etc. Yes, there are other sites listed, but they are sites (or their owners) that have harmed us personally. After all, would ANY business advertise something that had caused them legal issues or defamation? We have a disclaimer at the top of our banned list stating that it contains personal views and does not necessarily mean that a listed site or Program is bad. This, I hope, will give the viewer a chance to make up their own mind.
I have been labelled a 'runner' PO, but I am still here. Any PTR PO would know that there are no vast fortunes to be made in this industry. The sites that we run do not make much of a profit, what little there is, goes back into the sites and we even use our own money to pay Members. Why do we do it? This industry used to be fun and we enjoy looking after Members and if a few cents or even dollars help them, then it is worthwhile. These days, with all the unnecessary hassles, we are thinking is it worth it - the answer is becoming more convincing, NO! We have considered selling the sites, but if we did, who has won? Certainly not us, the naysayers and bullies will have got their way. I am not in this to be popular or liked, I'm not that vain. But, I believe in honesty and fairness and I would hope to make this industry a better place. There are many good Programs out there with excellent POs. I am willing to learn and am still learning after many years in this field. I'm not too proud to take advice or criticism, but it must be constructive.
There is far too much negativity and there are at least three popular forums that generate this by the bucket load. Forums can and do have many good points, they can be a huge asset to Newbies and old hands alike. But, they need to be managed better. Moderators need to be objective and unbiased. They need to fully understand what is being said and who is saying it and not be afraid to stand up and take action against the small minority who clearly have no other objective but to cause disruption and bully. Some people may not have a great understanding of English, whether it is because it is not their first language or if they have communication issues. Misinterpretation is often the cause of many problems and we all need to be aware that the written word often does not show the emotion that the author is trying to communicate. We may read something that is the complete reverse of what the other person is trying to say. We should be helping these people, not bash and belittle them, as some do. If they use the wrong terminology, we should politely correct them, preferably in private so that they can edit their post in necessary.
Certain forums contain slanderous and/or libellous comments - depending on interpretation, as it is both the written word, but effectively 'spoken' - just a grey area I guess. In the 'Real World', which appears not to exist in the PTR world as I have found from personal experience (Does personal experience exist in PTR either?), a person could be sued for making derogatory statements amongst other things. The trouble is that these bullies are cocooned behind their computer monitors, effectively anonymous, with only their IP to show where they are - even that can be falsified. They don't worry about a knock on the door with someone serving them with a lawsuit or taking them outside for 'a bit of fresh air' to read them their horoscopes. If you were to meet these bullies in the street, they would run a mile.
What can we do? Jason, you have already started and so have all those who have contributed to this blog. We all need to make others aware of these bullies. I don't have all the answers, but I am willing to support this project in any way I can. Even if it is just promoting this blog and getting it seen. However, as I (we) run our own hosting company, I am willing to host a site, program or forum, free of charge, if anyone would like to help with this cause. I am not interested in profiting from it, but we could set up some sort of revenue earner if need be, to help the promotion in other areas. Due to my many other commitments, I would not be able to run it solely, but can help with the technical side and support in any way I can. Please PM me if I can help.
Apologies for such a long post, I hope it provides an insight as to my feeings. The general consensus appears to be that this blog is supported solely by Members of BGPayMail. Whilst I have heard of the Program, I know very little about it and I do not know the owner. However, we have a common cause and are being seriously affected by the same bullies etc. I fully expect to be called a liar, I am used to it - but I know the truth and so do others. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it IS their opinion and not that of the dictatorship that this industry is being succumbed to. I do not pretend to be very religious, but the 'Big G' is my witness and the statements I have made here are truthful. I say again though, this blog is not about me, nor do I wish it to be, but the common issue is clearly the same - DOWN WITH THE BULLIES!
Best Regards
Tony
After a year of being on the list I contacted Rob and with new evidence and a years worth of no new complaints and good standing & paying members our site was removed from the boycotte list and put on the watch list.
I thought to my self cool the system may actually work and we have proven our selves. Boy was I wrong. The same people who got us boycotted, the same people who were not members of our program came in and with what even pure presser they had got us put back up on the boycott list. So once again the rules were bent and broken to put us back up there.
I once thought GPTboycott was a good idea but realized not long after it wasn't all that good. as programs that did run off with peoples money didn't make their list. I started to notice some sites going up that didn't disserve to be on there including our site. They went after US not our site and that's when they changed the rules to suit them selves not to protect clickers. Boycott has been tainted for along time. We have been called names and accused of some really nasty things and some of those attacks are still there to read.
I agree that forums can be a great place for info when the info is able to be given freely with out being attacked for your views.
I have to admit I have jumped on people who didn't always agree, but in most cases I was defending a friend, loved one or my self and I wont apologize for protecting them although I may have gone about it the wrong way.
Thanks Jason for your blog its nice to see others bringing to light and seeing the evil shadows lurking and we can all now see clearly who is pulling the strings in puppet shows on the many different stages of PTR
I don't know what any of us can do except to make people aware of what is taking place.
I mean some program owners are supporting the boycott forum for what I feel is some sort of protection against being targeted.
Personally I don't understand why people feel the need to try to undermine things but I do have my own suspicions as to why the select few ban together and attack like zealous hungry lions, those that do not have the same opinion.
Again thanks for posting.
Complainers are made up when needed.
Complaints are fabricated.
Neither can be verified so how genuine is that list!!
Their rules are changed to suit mainly on how much they have against the supporters of the site in question & how much they dislike the PO.
Moles are planted have no doubt about that.
Personal information, oh yes, once in their hands, it is no longer personal. If you haven't given it to them, they will search for it and even stoop to stealing it and using it against you.
There definitely is a link between those 3 forums.
GPTB owners think they are safe and can say/do/or allow to be said about anyone because of the disclaimer at the bottom of the page but they may soon find that not be be true.
Thank you for posting, it gives the readers a PO's opinion of gptb.
BG has taking a stand against their wrong doings, their flawed boycotting procedures, their unfounded attacks and lies etc...and if you like you can post there too:
http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?s=2d6effa015a5c5ea47d0e0aa49b0d9b6&showtopic=4552&st=585&gopid=39524&#entry39524
Thank you Jason, again, for keeping up this blog:)
What gets me is they don't seam to mind when the votes are in their favor when its to boycott or watch list a site. How is their voting against sites any different then members coming and supporting a site and PO they trust and respect. How is it when the table is turned its unfair and should not be allowed and when the votes are in their favor its all good and how its meant to work.
Rod is saying that anyone should be allowed to vote to boycott a site it should not just members who can vote. Now he is saying it should only be none members who can get it removed from the list. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Its the members who are getting paid and who are the ones who should have the say NOT the NON MEMBERS.
Table has turned and their little group of mudslingers can't fight against the masses of good and smart members of M&S.
But what are the odds the rules will be once again changed to keep M&S on the list.
I have also seen that Rob has decided to add Netwinner to the watch list. 5 complaints for a site that has over 50,000 member prob more but I am estimating. Netwinner is like my points some how I think Rob has bitten off more then he can chew.
According to trulys book keeping tabs which I'd like to know where she got it from, the site has paid out like 4 grand in old debt and has what another 1800 to pay off. round that to say 6 grand total owed seems to me this new webmaster has paid off well over 50% of the debt if not closer to 70%.
To the bias, well the bias is on the nay sayers. Why was SAS never put on the watch or boycott list? Is the old debt there paid off?
Kind of ironic when you watch them all come together. You have a few ptr owners who have ptp and a traffic exchange owner who rules the roost over ptp sites shown.
Funny how there was such a big deal at SAS over so called porn on some ptp sites so the went with this new system of marking sites as safe, yet when I was there, there were ptp sites marked as safe with very scantily clothed females. How did they pass under the radar?
If you think about it, seems to me there is a small organized group attempting to keep the competition out by nefarious means. Maybe not who knows I guess its just another paranoid conspiracy, right?
And since when did it matter if someone is new to the boycott site voting? Heck non members can vote to boycott sites based on friends opinions.
Guess, since PTR is small potatoes, no worries about being sued for libelous/slanderous content and making judgment calls based on unverified complaints.
The place as far as I'm concerned is a joke.
And yes Jason,that place is nothing but a big joke, sad thing though, many newbies may believe everything that they spit out.
Best thing to do ,I think is, to get the word out and to show them for what they are.
And you doing a great job in doing just that by keeping this blog going:)
What gets me is they don't seam to mind when the votes are in their favor when its to boycott or watch list a site. How is their voting against sites any different then members coming and supporting a site and PO they trust and respect. How is it when the table is turned its unfair and should not be allowed and when the votes are in their favor its all good and how its meant to work.
I have also seen that Rob has decided to add Netwinner to the watch list. 5 complaints for a site that has over 50,000 member prob more but I am estimating. Netwinner is like my points some how I think Rob has bitten off more then he can chew.
--------------------------------
Right GeorgieB, that's exactly how it works there, the more negative you are the more you are welcome.
Let him chew, let him chew the more he chews he will finally choke himself and his scamming forum offline.
-----------------------------------
Jason
If you think about it, seems to me there is a small organized group attempting to keep the competition out by nefarious means. Maybe not who knows I guess its just another paranoid conspiracy, right?
-----------------
Is it Jason? I don't think so, Beenpaid forum owns all ptp sites or would like to rule over them, haven't you noticed the new ptp sites that start and are doing well then suddenly you see the beenpaid award and the site's click values goes downs and slowly fades, why is that? I've been with 3 sites that have gone that way and yet no complaints about them on GPTB,they just disappear. I think gptb, beenpaidforum are definitely together and possibly gpt forum. Guess I'm paranoid too LOL.
As for M&S those NO votes will soon be rigged, notice the 'friends' from gpt forum and wiw forum slowly dribbling in? Bet there'll be more bogus complaints from bogus members which will put MS on the boycott list soon, that's what happened in BGPM's case. Why do you think merlin asked Rob if it was too late to put in a complaint, if not to urge others to do the same? They are up to their usual game.
Rob
For starters, GetPaidForum is a very successful forum discussing issues in the get-paid world. Boasting over 1638 members, this could be argued (along with the GPTBoycott forum) to be the biggest and most popular forum on the Internet discussing this industry.
The two sites are intertwined closely, and they both promote each other
-----------------------------------------
And looks like the poll to remove M&S from the watchlist was just started to bring some more traffic there as it was dwindling before that.
Rob's latest post since the poll closed, but thread is left open:
Rob
I will release the final results of the poll (taking into account those members who sent me a PM to change their original vote) soon, though the poll may not necessarily prove conclusive on the matter.
The decision we make will be revealed and fully explained in the near future.
Think we can assume that the site will NOT be taken of the list, who knows, I may be wrong, but not holding my breath.
If they do alter the vote using those PM's I suggest they post all the PM's sent.
The entire process is flawed in favor of a handful of players be they program owners or members.
Time and again you can see the favoritism eek out in thread after thread. All one has to do is read.
What good is it to have a poll, when you can change your mind at any given time from 'yes' to 'no'?
Sounds to me to be a very crooked deal and like you said Jason, how is one to know those PM's even exist.
Yup Georgie, time will tell, from what I read there, I believe their were 3 who asked to change their vote (I could be wrong) but that would not bring the poll to a 'no' status anyway, so lets see what they do next.
Those who decided to change their vote (from what they posted) are from that handful of regular players there and as far as I know, they are not even members of M&S , nor have they been.
It was all just a "traffic-getting" gimmick and a way to get "new member sign-ups" so they could take a "vote."
Anything to "get more members" so GPTBoycott can look "impressive" and hope for more people to "click" on ads from his affiliation with Bidvitiser.
That's ALL it is to Rob, nothing more. Because, if there WAS even a pinch of ethics of "netiquette" in him, he would be having his moderators editing MOST of the comments made by that "group" that bashes and incites to draw out the worst in honest posters.
Now your not allowed to have a hall of shame or terms that protect your sites.
Watch out soon all sites that have a GAG clause in their terms will be added to the watch/boycott list.
Just sad very very sad.
Boycott have just proven once again there is no structure to their system. And from the looks of it are not willing to make any changes. People can talk till they are blue in the face. What was the point in this poll. They had obvious already made up their minds before it was ever started.
Once again boycott changes the rules to suit them selves.....and how many of us predicted this.
mcf
Regardless of what we all thought of the TonyB/April soap a few years back (and it was one of the worst), it was obvious that the boycott of Bournemouthbreeze was instigated and pushed on by a member here and that the site was boycotted far sooner than a site with 112 members would have been in the normal course of events. So yes the boycott process can be manipulated from within.
And we knew that, bashing threads there are instigated and manipulated from inside, depends who you know there and who is friends with that circus.
GeorgieB and Tony, you are most welcome to post your thoughts about them here too:
http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?s=251079811751f9b12a0c2b9522e19786&showtopic=4552&pid=39862&st=675&#entry39862
PTRInfo (a directory & Award site) does not allow PTR/PTC etc....sites to be removed from theirs if it's been boycotted and like in the case of BGPM they even went so far as to blocking praises, payments and those members that like to post, vote and comment about BgPayMail/Bill.
Are they licenced? Do they have the authority to do what they do? NO, 'they' have nothing and NO rights what so ever, just like gPTB who thinks they can control others site.
A few disgruntled gPTB members keep posting negative comments about BGPM and some of those I'am sure from some who never even belonged to BGPM.
Those posts are allowed by PTR Info even tho, just like at gPTB,NO username is allowed to be added to the post.
Makes me pretty suspicious as I see no reason NOT to add a username to a post but of course it is very confinient for those who are out to get a PO with lies, accusations, assumption etc..... and deceiving others.
gPTB allows complaints to be submitted using a fasle name and no username is required.No way any of those complaints can be verified yet sites are put on the watch and boycott list using those crooked procedures.
Lots of similarities between PTR INfo and gPTB.
There are some boycotted sites that PTR Info still allows advertising to be shown there, others, like BGPM,if you click on the link to visit the site or on that big ugly red sign that is there now instead the sites banner, it will take you to gPTB, NOT to the site itself.
So,several links are used from just one boycotted site to bring traffic to gPTB instead of letting others go to the site and decide for themselfs whether to join or not.
Linking a boycotted site to gPTB in 3 different places where it should go to the listed site directly is bias as can be and only provides more traffic for Rob (owner of gPTB) so I have to assume that those 2 sites, PTR Info and gPTB are working together to say the least and BGPM (and other sites, I'am sure) has been singled out on both places, even after being boycotted 2 years ago by using corrupted procedures,lies, false accusations and assumptions.
Another thing that I do NOT agree with is that the owner of PTR Info (carla) has all of her own sites listed there, in a directory and award site and has her own members vote/post payouts, write a review etc......
To me, not only does it not look legit to others but she also has an unfair advantage over other POs and their sites.
If you like to read more about it, just click the following link or c/p it in your browser if not clickable:
http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?s=e5901093e2e5323a3edb08dda1184a2f&showtopic=4914&st=30
Reviews for BGPayMail have STOPPED at PTR Info for over a year until THEY (boycotters) started them back up in Dec. 2008, using NOT fresh material, but, OLD stuff. We supporters of BGPayMail are NOT the ones who brought BGPayMail up for review, but, we ARE contributing FRESH data in effort to fight against the efforts being made by GPTBoycotters in retaliation for our hard work to reveal the TRUTH about GPTB.
I, too, had some questions with the way PTR Info is being changed by the new owner.
This "redirect" link to gptb at PTR Info is one of them. That's why I submitted a ticket, thinking it was a fluke that needed fixed.
Not only was it NOT a fluke, but, PTR Info owner's reply even furthers my suspicion that GPTB is a "silent partner" of PTR Info.
In the business world, "silent partners" are those who "help" people who start a business or are in need of "support" to get an existing business out of trouble.
However, they do not want their "partnership" to be disclosed for whatever reasons - usually because of their "less than satisfactory reputation of being corrupt." Mafias do that all the time, not only as a means to launder money, but, to gain power, control, and never-ending money or "favors" by extortion.
Well, anyway, here is a c/p of the ticket I submitted to PTR Info, and a c/p of the owner's reply. Judge for yourself whether or not you think GPTB is a "silent partner" of PTR Info.:
(Keep in mind that silent partners want to hide their identity and vow those they help to secrecy. Which MEANS that the owner of PTR Info will deny any association to whom MAY BE the silent partner - the owners of GPTB)
My Ticket:
Created on: 2009-03-28 00:52:30
Message:
With all due respect for the GPT Industry I don't think it's appropriate to have "VISIT WEBSITE" take you to GPTBoycott instead of the site expected to be visited: in this case, BGPaymail.
I am hoping it is a glitch in your site, and, NOT a sneaky attempt to derail traffic to GPTBoycott!
If people want to learn about the site in review, let the link take them to the site that's being reviewed! Not GPTBoycott!
Which ever it is this is a request to FIX the problem.
Another thing. Who's running the show on PTR Info? You? Or the owner of GPTBoycott?
Seems to me that if clicking a link to "VISIT WEBSITE" takes the viewer to GPTBoycott instead of the site on the review page, the answer to who's running the show at PTR Info surely ISN'T YOU!
Regards,
Donna Wike
PTR Info Response:
Date: 2009-03-30 05:32:04
Name: Administrator
Message:
the link directs to the thread about BG boycott discussion.
So that anyone clicking on it can see reasons for boycott and also MANY boycott sites are SCAM or sites with nasties on them and we do not want to risk members being harmed by visiting a potential dangerous site from our site....
all boycotted sites are the same.
we are in no way associated with gptboycott.
we have never even spoken to the owner/s of that site.
we simply use their services for the purpose they were intended to warn people of bad or dangerous sites that should be avoided. this is for the benefit of the gpt industry members.
I live in north carolina no idea where gptb is located.
my ptrinfo manager monika is not associated with them either. she handles the day to day running of ptrinfo as a volunteer...This site and all costs and prizes come out of my own pocket. Since i took ownership the site has NEVER had a single month where it paid for itself in any way. but when i purchased the site i was aware of that fact and money was not the reason for purchase it was the purpose that it stands for that was the reason for us buying the site.
also i have been told people in your site are saying the fact that my sites are listed is a concern. however this is not so... my sites will NEVER accept the prize money even if they did win which i doubt will happen as i dont push members to vote ect in fact i keep my ptrs and ptrinfo completely seperate and have not meantioned ptrinfo to members in ages LOL
if one of mine won a prize it would be given to the site in 2nd place.
also THIS site is ran on automated script the votes reviews exit visits and certifications are all handled by the scripts. the only editing that is done is to ad new dates each month so that it will show the winners list for new months as they come along. i have no way of editing the certifications at all. would be nice thou to be able to remove certs for dead sites and such. but it cant be done or at least not by me. i am no good at mysql programing LOL
Best regards,
PTRInfo Administrator
Take note of what she said in her very FIRST paragraph:
"....all boycotted sites are the same" (meaning any site she sees boycotted is scam)
Biased to the hilt in favor of GPTB!
And, the continued denial of association with GPTB:
"we are in no way associated with gptboycott."
"my ptrinfo manager monika is not associated with them either."
"we have never even spoken to the owner/s of that site."
How can one SAY the DON'T associate with a site when they deliberately USE RE DIRECTS
(which to me is a dishonesty in itself to have people think they are being linked to
one thing but, redirected to another site through that link) that goes to the site with
which they claim not be associated with?
IF PTR Info would hold true to their "purpose" they would NOT use redirect links! They
would use DIRECT links, instead. Like, let the "VISIT WEBSITE" TAKE the viewer TO the
WEBSITE in review - NOT some stupid forum that explains their biased reasons for
boycotting it!
I'd even go so far as to say add a DIRECT link to gptboycott on the same page - giving the viewer the OPTION to read about BOTH.
THIS "new" owner of PTR Info is either too stupid to see what's going on and, too blind trusting a corrupted site, or she's in cahoots WITH GPTB (being a silent partner) and "vowing" to keep that association secret.
Now, back on the subject of GPTB and the subject of "Are Forums being truthful...."
I continue with NO, and show to what extent SOME of them go to (GPTB) in order to get traffic to their sites and to continue a vendetta against those sites that are succeeding in their goal to "Fight for Justice" in the realm of GPT!
There's a whole lot more going on with GPTB than what we see on the surface. It boils down to money, power and control over the GPT Industry! Anyone who does NOT support them or does not cower to letting GPTB tell them how to run their sites their "just cause" for doing what they do.
In order to stop or curtail what they do, we must continue to spread the word and keep
GPT sites from falling into the corrupted hands of those Forums that USE whatever means they can to obtain power and control over them!
It is OBVIOUS that PTR Info has now become another tool to be used by GPTB as a means to continue their corruption to control and manipulate the GPT Industry for their own gain.
At this point I would advise anyone NOT to submit a favorite GPT site for review to PTR Info. All that will do is give GPTB another avenue to reach out to more sites for their own selfish gain of money, power, and control.
dcwike
Read more here:
http://bgpaymail.com/forum/index.php?s=e5901093e2e5323a3edb08dda1184a2f&showtopic=4914&st=30
NOW, when you click on "VISIT WEBSITE" of boycotted programs you get redirected to a bogus link that makes it look like the site cannot be found, and leads one to believe it does not exist anymore.
On the left hand of the PTR Info page under "Directory" you can check out the PTR sites that have been submitted for review. Once you click on that it takes you to a page with a line of Alphabet letters. If you click on "B" for example you will find BGPayMail in that list.
When you click on a program it takes you to the "review" page of that site.
IF the site was NOT boycotted, the "VISIT WEBSITE" link takes you DIRECTLY to the site in question.
HOWEVER, IF the site has been boycotted, the link now REDIRECTS to a BOGUS link with a page that says the site CAN NOT be found. Which, I repeat, makes one believe the site no longer exists.
WHAT it LEADS people to believe is that ANY site that has been boycotted no longer exists - which also leads one to think that GPTBoycott is SO POWERFUL that sites that get boycotted no longer exist.
You can't TELL me that the owner of PTR Info doesn't have anything to do with GPTB. Not after the discovery of what I found above. She can SIT there and SAY she doesn't READ GPTB, but, she CANNOT say she's not in cahoots with them.
We can't PROVE PTR Info is owned by the owner of GPTB, but, who's to say "they" didn't talk some bimbo into purchasing it so they can control it?
What I can't understand is why the owner(s) of GPTB are doing this, or what they are getting out of it. Do they think people are so blind that people can't see what they do?
All I know is the more we figure out the more we must let people KNOW what they do.